Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

I had the following hand earlier today.
At first sight it looks like I am an idiot!

** Game ID 729888473 starting - 2006-03-22 15:00:06
** Gallipoli [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Button sitting in seat 1 with $36.60 [Dealer]
- SB sitting in seat 2 with $22.10
- BB sitting in seat 3 with $52.20
- UTG sitting in seat 4 with $24.08
- Hero sitting in seat 5 with $64.90
- CO sitting in seat 6 with $74.57

SB posted the small blind - $0.25
BB posted the big blind - $0.50

** Dealing card to Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG folded
Hero called - $0.50
CO folded
Button called - $0.50
SB called - $0.50
BB checked

** Dealing the flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Jack[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checked
BB bet - $2.00
Hero raised - $5.00
Button folded
SB folded
BB called - $5.00

** Dealing the turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checked
Hero checked

** Dealing the river: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB bet - $12.00
Hero folded

BB mucks:

BB wins $23.40 from the main pot

What actually happened was that the software froze up on the turn and by the time I got back it was too late.

So, I e-mailed support:

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

Many times your software seems to freeze up for no reason. It is not a problem with my internet connection as other things still work.



I am not the only one to complain as I have chatted about this with many others and they suffer the same problem.



It has cost me some pots from time to time but today was the worst.



See this hand: 729 888 473.

At no point in the HH does it say I am disconnected. It just says I timed out.


[/ QUOTE ]

First I got this reply:

[ QUOTE ]
I see you did in fact time out. Unfortunately this happens when playing online.

You are correct in saying you would have had a winning hand and based on this we are chatting to the poker room owners to see if we can compensate you in some way.



They will reply to you within 6 hours.

Kind regards,

Code Poker Support


[/ QUOTE ]

Then they got back to me again with this e-mail:

[ QUOTE ]
Once again we would like to apologize for the timed out which happened during your play at CodePoker, we will check on the

IT issue as you have given your PC details.



We have analized the hand that you were holding as well as the hand of your opponent BB and we fully agree with you
in that you would have won the pot.
We can also tell you that your opponent would have put himself all-in or at least would have called a likely raise from your side as he was holding JQ.
At the point of the "Time out" you had "Full House" and he had three jacks with a nice Q kicker.

In total you would have won his entire bankroll, i.e. $52.20 as well as $1.25 which came from the other pre-flop callers.

Furthermore, you would never have lost your $5.50. In total, it is an amount of $58.95 that should be on your account.

We have credited this amount to your CodePoker account.

We wish you good at our tables!

Sincerely,

CodePoker


[/ QUOTE ]

I can confirm that they have credited me the amount.
Well done Code Poker - you make CS on other sites look idiots.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Wow. It'd be pretty funny if they took the money out of the other guy's account.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

What terrible support! In every email they sent you, they failed to remind you not to give your password out to any one.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Wow, I could see them awarding you the size of the pot including his bet, but assuming any more action is flat out wrong. So you raise the river, if he's really good he might fold. If not there's a very good chance he just calls your $15 raise or whatever. Or maybe you smell a rat and only call the $12. HE has a disconnect and doesn't call your raise. Whatever. If they're paying you out of pocket, nobody loses (except for the site - terrible business decision) but if they took it out of the guy's account, I'd never play there again. No way I'd feel comfortable that I would not ever be on the other end of somebody disconnecting and the site somehow determining later that I would have lost and taking money from my bankroll to pay the disconnector.

This is "great customer service" in that you got extra money, but they are WAY overstepping their bounds by assuming any further action in the hand beyond the bets on the table.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

LOL

You Party-lover you!

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

[ QUOTE ]
What terrible support! In every email they sent you, they failed to remind you not to give your password out to any one.

[/ QUOTE ]

And not a word about how you can make a quick 50 bucks or whatever by selling your friends out. Jeez.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

As far as I know the money was not taken from his account.
In that case, I can't see why you think it is a terrible business decision.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

I agree they could never take the money out of the other player. First, if the other guy plays on another prima site then they would not have access to his bankroll. Second, the fact that they determined what could have been the outcome on the river would be unsustainable against the other guy.

Regarding business decision, i think it is the first time i read a support e-mail, which actually seems to know anything about poker. Furthermore, businesswise they must be pretty happy that a the person receiving such a treatment is nice enough to let everybody know about it.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding business decision, i think it is the first time i read a support e-mail, which actually seems to know anything about poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't have put it better myself.

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, businesswise they must be pretty happy that a the person receiving such a treatment is nice enough to let everybody know about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I acutally e-mailed them a link to this thread and they thanked me.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

[ QUOTE ]
We have analized the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

i was hoping they were going to tell you that they took the money out of that guy's account. that would've been hilarious

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

If it were my business, I would not want to set ANY precedent where I pay customers out of my pocket for actions that MAY have occurred after an incident like this. That will just lead to either fraud by other customers, or really sticky situations in big NL (or even limit) games. Or, this can lead to big arguments between the customer and CS over what the outcome of the hand would have been.

Suppose a week from now the same exact hand, and same exact situation come up with another player. He emails CS, but this CS rep says, well there's a possible flush on the board, and your raise might not have been called.

Basically, anything where the decisions are made based on some subjective assessment by a representative or the site itself is inviting trouble. And in a bigger game, it could mean paying or not paying out WAY more money in retribution than the table is bringing in for rake. It's bad business because the customers won't be happy when you rule against them later, and ruling for them in bigger games means you're paying out substantial amounts when you aren't bringing in that money. Plus, it then invites possible fraud.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

To me this 60 bucks spent by this site resulting in this thread...
Good management can get you a long way. Me thinks this site has potential!

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

The point isn't the 60 bucks spent now, it's the headaches you get when everyone wants to be paid back when either they disconnect, or the site has an error. They have to make judgments on what would have happened in the hand every time, which aren't always going to be a clear decision or favor the person posting here. It's a recipe for disaster. Or they could pay everyone the entire stack of their opponent and go bankrupt.

I'm not pissed off of anything that they gave theblitz the money, it's great for him. But it is not a good business decision on their part because of the can of worms it opens for the future.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

It is their can of worms though. I dont believe all the criticism of the site when it does not negatively effect the players. They decided to eat a small loss for CS sake, *gasp* they care about making customers happy when their product was buggy. Stop bashing their business decisions which they are free to make themselves

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

This reasening of yours I can quite follow, I am sure the site has thought of this to, I know I have.
But Code Poker is not the only one who thinks the way they do.
At Everest Poker about a hundred players got hacked into their account losing their entire stack. This was due to the fact that they foolishley became victims of a Phishing-scam, trying to get a bonus, giving their loginginformation to a site of wich they thought it was Everest Poker. In no way was Everest to blame jet they paid every victim the money that they claimed was lost.
No 60 dollars but in fact K's of dollars.
What you think of that?

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Just for the sake of the slightly jealous ones: I then lost all the money and more on 2 big hands:

Flopped trip A with K kicker. Slowplayed it and guy hit 6 on turn with pocket 6s.

Flopped set of K. Ended up all-in on the flop against a flush draw and lost.

-$65 in a couple of hands.

-$80 including the other table.

Take into account the end-of-month 50% on winnings and that cost me about $120.

"The Poker Gods giveth and the Poker Gods taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Poker Gods"

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Yes, you hate to see a business actually use intelligence when making a decision.

They surmised that it was extremely likely that the opponent would call his stack. And they paid out accordingly.

They made the best and fairest decision and you don't like it?

You wouldn't be a Party Support Supervisor would you?

"I told you Baboo...reply with the form letter until he goes away. If that doesn't work, offer him the Accelerator Bonus...."

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

I don't get all the criticism within this post. Support helped a fellow poker play in need, for once!, and we're saying that's not what they should have done.

So lets review....

Option A) Poker support does nothing and forum gets mad

Option B) Poker support compensates (plus a little more) and forum thinks this was the wrong move on part of the company.


IMHO, this was great to see by code poker. Are you guys just jealous the OP got HIS money back when he timed out, and you didn't on your website??

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

For the record, I'm the only one that says it's a bad business decision so the people that are saying "you jealous guys" or whatever can feel free to just direct that at me. I'm not jealous of OP but you can take that for what you will.

Anyway this is my take on the issue: Customer service was great in responding and refunding the player. I'm glad they made a decision that benefitted the player here (unless they were to take money from the other player in question). The tone of my first post probably made it seem like I was pissed at someone which would be the case only if they took money from the opposing player.

From a business perspective I feel that they put themselves in a bad position when they leave something up to a subjective decision. There certainly isn't a 100% chance (sure it's significant here but not definite) that OP would have taken the opposing player's stack (possible flush, boat, whatever). Next time, when someone posts on here, and does not get paid the opposing player's stack because of some subjective factor, everyone will be up in arms and say how their customer service make random decisions. They are much better off coming up with a straightforward objective policy for these situations. Yes it's theirs to make, and my opinion is that they made a bad one in establishing a precedent where they have to predict people's play based on the cards they held. I believe that it will cause more trouble than it will help, despite the fact that OP got a great result in this case.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

I hear what you're saying, but I'm sick of sites like Party, and Planet before them, and Ultimate currently, that don't seem to care about their customers when their software fails. Personally, I think I'll do some due diligence and give these guys a try.

If we all patronized sites that respected their customers, guess what would happen? We'd all be playing at big sites owned by responsible companies.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

They told you the other guy's hand and predicted how he'd play it? That's pretty weird.

Really cool that they gave you the money though.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I could see them awarding you the size of the pot including his bet, but assuming any more action is flat out wrong. So you raise the river, if he's really good he might fold. If not there's a very good chance he just calls your $15 raise or whatever. Or maybe you smell a rat and only call the $12. HE has a disconnect and doesn't call your raise. Whatever. If they're paying you out of pocket, nobody loses (except for the site - terrible business decision) but if they took it out of the guy's account, I'd never play there again. No way I'd feel comfortable that I would not ever be on the other end of somebody disconnecting and the site somehow determining later that I would have lost and taking money from my bankroll to pay the disconnector.

This is "great customer service" in that you got extra money, but they are WAY overstepping their bounds by assuming any further action in the hand beyond the bets on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

theblitz is happy, the winner of that hand is not unhappy and people are talking about it on this forum....I think it's a pretty good business decision.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

yeah, they have been very nice with me too... some good people are working there!

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Penndisc,

In this particular case what would have been an objective decision? Your point is interesting but I think it deserves to be specified...
If you were them what would you have done?

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Just a pity the cards aren't being so nice to me today.
I could fill a whole page in the BBV forum.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

[ QUOTE ]
What terrible support! In every email they sent you, they failed to remind you not to give your password out to any one.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are now ignoring this donkey.

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

I would have done the same if I had the luck to manage a poker room!

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Just because they made this kind gesture to one person doesn't mean they have to to everyone. Do you really think people are going to stop playing because they don't give them money from possible future actions?

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Is code poker prima?

Re: Code Poker: Greatest CS I have ever met
 

Yes