1/2 Newbie theory on playing against loose bb caller.
 

I'm new to 6 max so I posted a question about how to play aganst a loose BB caller. Scotch78 gave me the comment that it would be better for me to figure it out my self, since it's a very basic thing, and I had to agree on that.

This is what I came up with, after reading of blind stealing in HEPFAB if the blinds are too loose, doh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. In HEPFAB it’s recommended to limp with your trouble hands, if the BB will come along anyhow.

Please correct me when I'm wrong, or if you have tips on something I should be thinking about.

<u>Playing against a loose caller in the bb</u>
If you have a player in BB when you are on the button that will always call your pre flop raise, and call down with any pair or just one overcard, or two highcards. How should you play it?

What mistakes is he making?
1.Calling too much pre flop
2.Calling with weak hands post flop
3.Betting too much if it's checked on previous street.

How to get most from him
1.Raise only your best hands since you will anyhow get him to call down when you have top pair or better. You don't have any possibility to steal pre flop, so you should limp with your trouble hands that you would normally try to steal with like A6o.

2.Betting all pairs for value from flop and on. Also betting overcards or just one overcard on the flop.

3.Checking Turn if unimproved and be willing to call the river with Ace high if its not too scary.

Difficult decisions
1. The river call if you don't improve. Would be the biggest trouble whit this kind of play. There you would just need to get a good read on what he is willing to bet, after a turn check.
2. How to play underpairs like 22 on the flop, if it's checked to you / if it's bet into you.


So my play on the button pre flop if its folded to me would be to:
Raise: AA-77, AK-A9o,AK-A7s, any cards above T.
Call: A8-A5o, 22-66, T9s-98s.



In HEPFAB it says that you should raise only if your hand is in the top 40%. Had some trouble coming up to this number.
Got up to 22.1% with AKo-A7o, AKs-A2s, pockets down to 44 and any two cards J or higher.

Re: 1/2 Newbie theory on playing against loose bb caller.
 

Okay, next question for you . . . when is this loose BB not making a mistake? Also, try to frame both questions in terms of when you are having difficulty making a decision against him.

Scott

Re: 1/2 Newbie theory on playing against loose bb caller.
 

If I cant' steal the blinds, I wont try to steal the blinds with a blind stealing hand, e.g 76s, T9o

Now, why not consider moving table? I don't know many very loose BB players that aren't generally loose in all other positions.

This player is likely stopping you from stealing button and iso raisng on other hands at the table.

You ideally want to play at tables with tight blinds, so you can steal them, and also control alot more of the other hands.

From the hands you listed, I certainly always raise Axs, Ax, plus always Kxs which you didnt list.

Answers to questions
 

<u>What mistakes is he making</u>
Pre flop

<font color="blue"> He’s calling too much preflop.</font>
What hands have value for me to raise with, when there is no way to win the hand right away?

Post flop
<font color="blue"> He’s calling with weak hands post flop when he has few outs. </font>
Am I betting me middle pair for value or does he have top pair with no kicker.

<font color="blue">He is not playing correctly when he gives me a chance to draw out on him when he has a pair by checking, he’s not protecting his hand. </font>
Am I behind or not? Do I need the freecard or should I protect against it?

<u>When is he not making a mistake</u>
Pre flop

<font color="blue"> When he is calling with a hand better than mine. </font>
What hands do have the highest value in heads up situations?

Post flop
<font color="blue"> He’s playing correctly when he calls my bets with any pair, when I’m betting overcards. </font>
I can’t get him to dump his pair with aggression. How do I know if he has a pair or is just calling with a draw or J high, when I bet unimproved with my overcards. Am I protecting my hand or am I drawing?

<font color="blue"> When he bets his middle or bottom pair for value. </font>
When should I call a river bet after I check the turn, if I only have A high?

Re: Answers to questions
 

Pete,

What trends do you see through all of those mistakes?

Scott

Trends
 

These are the trends I see.

1. He's calling too much.
2. He's not raising enough.
3. He's not protecting his made hands with bets and raises.
4. He's beeing too passive.

Re: 1/2 Newbie theory on playing against loose bb caller.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is what I came up with, after reading of blind stealing in HEPFAB if the blinds are too loose, doh . In HEPFAB it’s recommended to limp with your trouble hands, if the BB will come along anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

If memory serves this section says you should limp with your trouble hands only when both the SB + BB are going to come along anyhow more than 70% of the time. If just the BB will come along raising is still correct.

Re: Trends
 

If we push that exemple to its limits in a heads up situation...
The BB calls every raises and call down every hands to showdown without raising.
Do I make a mistake by playing aggressively a lots of hands? I mean, if my hand is slightly better than his, I win more over the long run.
So in pete's problem (position of stealing), why should we tighten up our starting hands. I think we can even play a lil more hands than we would against a tricky opponent. He won't punish us for playing slightly worst hand than our normal stealing range. So assuming that against a random hand our stealing range give us the advantage the majority of the time, I think we can play them aggressively and profitably...
Until he figures that out!!

Don't be afraid to wack me if my reasoning is way off!
Thanks

Re: Trends
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. He's calling too much.
2. He's not raising enough.
3. He's not protecting his made hands with bets and raises.
4. He's beeing too passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you exploit each of these tendencies? Are there any trends at that level, too?

Scott

Exploiting tendencies
 

I have had a break from poker last weekend and just played some hands to get started again without too much analysis this week.

So that's why I was so slow on answering. Came up with this after some reasoning. Just want to thank you scotch78 for takeing the time to put me to work through some theory [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

1. He’s calling too much
Value bet top pair bad kicker on the river. Not sure how often you can value bet middle pair.
There I have to get better at reading the player.

2. He’s not raising enough
You will be able to get cheaply to showdown with marginal hands. You can often take the free card with draws on the turn.

3. He’s not protecting made hands with raises and bets.
My marginal hands won’t be bet out of the pot by weaker hands.
You can stay in there with top pair without a kicker or even middle pair.

4. He’s being too passive
You can play marginal hands cheaply as you won’t be raised.

Looseness and passivity are the major trends through his play.

This should effect ones play as follows:
You should bet your decent hands for value, like top pair no kicker and better. I’m not sure about middle pair, how often you should be betting it for value.

Also you will be able to stick around with weaker hands even if you are behind since he wont be betting that much or raising. You can take a free card almost always on the turn as long as you bet the flop, you will get to see two cards for just one small bet.




One thing that came up while goint through this was that, how loosely do you really have to play to beat this very poor players. Can you play pretty thight and get paid off enough by your top pairs and above that you dont have to stay in with middle pair, and you still can make a profit. Or will you simply be folding too many hands.

Feel free to comment on any mistakes in my reasoning.

Re: Exploiting tendencies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how often you can value bet middle pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I’m not sure about middle pair, how often you should be betting it for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since there seems to be a trend here, I'll help you out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. If it's heads-up on the turn and/or river between me and a calling station, I'm betting middle pair, good kicker most of the time, and 100% of the time if I have a pocket pair above middle pair.

Think of it this way. If you've paired the second of five board cards, then he's (roughly) three times as likely to have a worse pair. Even after you discount his holdings for bottom pair and such (even fish are more likely to play Ax than 4x), you're still going to have him beat most of the time. And when you have the pocket pair instead, that just magnifies things.

Scott