is your \"M\" really important?
 

i know since HOH people have been using this term alot. first of all i find calling this calculation "M" is annoying. i hate hearing My "m" is..

secondly doesnt this significantly different than just saying..20BB. i almost never when playing in a tournament worry about how long its going to take me to blind out.

i do understand the importance of stack size, just the stupid term "M" that makes me stop reading posts.

this isnt intended to be a flame or rant i just want to know actually if it is that importnat. if youre "M" is 5 or lower consider yourself short stacked why does this have to have a new term?

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

"M" just factors in antes. No it's not a whole lot different than calculating in # of bbs, but it is a little more accurate and encompassing.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

can it have a real name?

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
can it have a real name?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like M. If you're only real problem with it is the name, then you can use 'cost per round' (which I think is what they use in 'Kill Phil').

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

you could say I have 5 rounds left if you want

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

As long as you have some type of indicator for when to push all-in it doesn't really matter what method you use.. As Runout said, it's a bit more accurate because of the antes involved.. the 10BB rule is good too.

edit: oh you just don't like name of it.. okay in that case, call it whatever you'd like.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
can it have a real name?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like "spot" or "rex"?

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like M. If you're only real problem with it is the name, then you can use 'cost per round' (which I think is what they use in 'Kill Phil').

[/ QUOTE ]"Cost Per Round" is the combined total of both blinds and the amount of antes times the number of players at your table. The ratio of your stack to the CPR (i.e. your M) is called "Chip Status Index" or CSI.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can it have a real name?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like "spot" or "rex"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just call it "M". Damn thing doesn't come when you call it anyway.

And yes, it is important. If you aren't adjusting your strategy as your M changes you are making a large fundamental error.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

Harrington uses the term M and Harrington is cool. He's cool right? Haha. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

-jskinn

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

I dont know what "M" means nore do i care what it means, thats how important i think it is.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know what "M" means nore do i care what it means, thats how important i think it is.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you do not understand the concept then you're playing a very sub-optimal game. I could care less about the term but conceptually it's very important, and much more accurate and useful than simply taking into consideration how many BBs you've got.

I do think it's useful that there is a simple term that can be used since most of us have read HOH and immediately understand what someone means when they say they have an "M of 4". How else can it be described? I guess they could say I've got enough chips to last 4 rounds, or they can expect us to do the math from the hand history, but I think saying "M of 4" is simple and gets the job done efficiently and accurately.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

I understand the concept of adjusting my play depending on how many big blinds i have left. I just mean i dont know what the "M" term means specifically.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

Paul Magriel coined the phrase, I've always thought M might be for his last initial. In that case you could call it your "Magriel". "My Magriel was 25", personally I like M better, but honestly who gives a [censored] what you call it?

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

I monitored a bunch of MTTs to see how the average stacks compared to one orbit of blinds & antes at each level of the tournament. You can see the listing here...

http://www.tworags.com/index.php?ACT...RDS_ON_PAGE=25

If you click on the title, you'll get a page with the tournament...e.g. the 'Stars $1 mm...

http://www.tworags.com/index.php?ACT...nt&ID=1275

And if you scroll down, you can see how the average stack measures up to an orbit of blinds and antes. Site's still in beta, but feel free to look around.

And, yeah, the M matters.

Ed

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

csi is crime scene investigator correct

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

In general I 'think' in terms of blinds and antes as a ratio of my stack, but I do not really think about the number as M. I make adjustments as I see fit but I do not have guidelines, ie M 1-5, all in or fold, M 5-10 TAG poker etc. I just adjust on my ownnnnn

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In general I 'think' in terms of blinds and antes as a ratio of my stack, but I do not really think about the number as M. I make adjustments as I see fit but I do not have guidelines, ie M 1-5, all in or fold, M 5-10 TAG poker etc. I just adjust on my ownnnnn

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest mistake people can make with "M" is to implement the "zones" literally. Common sense should tell you that going from an M of 6 to 5 shouldn't all of a sudden require an absolute change in strategy. It's a continuum. Your strategy should be gradually shifting based on your M and the current table conditions.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

Agreed. Kill Phil has that same problem, with guidelines of when to push based on stack sizes of M > 30, 10 < M < 30, 4 < M < 10, and M < 4.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

Listen to ansky/lloyd, use common sense.

I've never calculated my M at the table. Its just another way of representing your stack-size. I use BBs. If there are antes, then i say to myself "Self: you have 6BBs...and there's an ante. You need to push more now." Pretty easy, no?

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

This guy thinks so:

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/pict...aulmagriel.jpg

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

m = stacksize/(blinds+antes)

the reason M is important is because if you consider your blinds only, when you play live with ante's too. It gives a better, more accurately your position vs the blinds.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i know since HOH people have been using this term alot. first of all i find calling this calculation "M" is annoying. i hate hearing My "m" is..

secondly doesnt this significantly different than just saying..20BB. i almost never when playing in a tournament worry about how long its going to take me to blind out.

i do understand the importance of stack size, just the stupid term "M" that makes me stop reading posts.

this isnt intended to be a flame or rant i just want to know actually if it is that importnat. if youre "M" is 5 or lower consider yourself short stacked why does this have to have a new term?

[/ QUOTE ]
To answer the question, yes it's important.

As i'm sure multiple posters have pointed out, as long as there are no antes then figuring a ratio of stack/BB will give you the same info needed as the ratio of stack/BB+SB. Since most tournaments have antes though 'M' is needed as a concept. Just in terms of simplicity and efficient communication expressing your tournament situation as a single number i.e. "My M was 5" is a lot simpler than explaining your tournament situation as a string of variables "My stack was 10,000 and the blinds were 1000/2000 with a 75 ante". Why say the latter when the former conveys all the same information a lot more simply? Wasting time is fun?

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i know since HOH people have been using this term alot. first of all i find calling this calculation "M" is annoying. i hate hearing My "m" is..

secondly doesnt this significantly different than just saying..20BB. i almost never when playing in a tournament worry about how long its going to take me to blind out.

i do understand the importance of stack size, just the stupid term "M" that makes me stop reading posts.

this isnt intended to be a flame or rant i just want to know actually if it is that importnat. if youre "M" is 5 or lower consider yourself short stacked why does this have to have a new term?

[/ QUOTE ]
To answer the question, yes it's important.

As i'm sure multiple posters have pointed out, as long as there are no antes then figuring a ratio of stack/BB will give you the same info needed as the ratio of stack/BB+SB. Since most tournaments have antes though 'M' is needed as a concept. Just in terms of simplicity and efficient communication expressing your tournament situation as a single number i.e. "My M was 5" is a lot simpler than explaining your tournament situation as a string of variables "My stack was 10,000 and the blinds were 1000/2000 with a 75 ante". Why say the latter when the former converys all the same information a lot more simply? Wasting time is fun?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. An example (10 handed) Hero's stack = 3000

1. BB=200, SB=100, then M = 10
2. BB 200/SB 100/Ante = 25, then M = 5.45

This is a standard level increase on most live tourneys that absolutely kills the weak tighties. Knowing this is a real asset when playing against them.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

See, I always use M, but I just calculate the pot size for each round at each level anyway.
It's especially good to do this rather than xBB if you play on sites with higher-ante structures (UB, Full Tilt, Bodog are the ones that cone to mind).

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Listen to ansky/lloyd, use common sense.

I've never calculated my M at the table. Its just another way of representing your stack-size. I use BBs. If there are antes, then i say to myself "Self: you have 6BBs...and there's an ante. You need to push more now." Pretty easy, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
I will say that I always calculate my "M" whenever I win or lose a big pot, or if the blinds go up. The first time I ever did this was at last year's WSOP. I was in a supplemental event (second chance) and because the blinds were changing so fast I felt like I constantly was calculating "M" and adjusting accordingly. Variance, of course, but I wound up winning that event and I do attribute at least part of it to "M" specifically. While it requires a slightly more complicated math step it is more accurate than just how many BBs, it takes into consideration the antes, and if implemented correctly in its modified form takes into consideration shorthanded play. But again, I don't care what it's called but conceptually it is the most accurate way of taking into consideration your stack size when deciding what types of hands to play and how hard you have to push those hands.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

The "M", the number itself isn't what's important. What's important is that you are aware of the changing dynamic at your table as the blinds and antes rise and that you have a continuing adaptation to the conditions as they vary. "M" basically just gives a simplistic numerical value to certain conditions that develop at the table as the blinds and antes rise. Each player adapts differently to these changing conditions, and it is important that you are always one step ahead in your decision making and adaptation.

Re: is your \"M\" really important?
 

Just wanted to add, being able to calculate other people's M is helpful as well. I'm sure posters can give many examples of knowing someone else's M (and knowing your opponent knows his own M), and knowing they can steal this person's blinds, or call an all in, etc. (Obviously there are other considerations, I'm just M can factor in, and any information you can gain is helpful.)