Did I overcount my outs?
 

Table is loose, a few are aggressive.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

(I normally raise a high pair, but with so many callers in front of me, I figured I wasn't going to drive out a K-x or A-x and I would have to chuck my hand anyway if the flop gave out overcards without a queen. I had also been pushing high pairs earlier, so this looked like an opportunity to mix it up and hope to win a lot of bets if the queen hits.)

Flop: (13 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

(Obviously, when I got bet-reraised I knew what I was up against. I was going to need to pair the board to win. At the time, I was doing a quick 1+6 count of the possible outs (the queen plus the other three suits of the flop cards) to justify calling this down. That was a mistake with respect to the King because that's a likely card that got folded by at least one of the other players. But at this point, to call the reraise, the pot is offering immediate odds of 9-1. I'd be lying if I did the math during the heat of the hand, but I was figuring that if I missed pairing the board on the turn, that would create more outs to pair the board on the river, which would make up for the effective odds for calling one bet on the turn.)

Turn: (9.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>....

Did I talk myself into being a donkey this hand?

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

Grunch,

No, I can't say that you did. When you flop a set, you really do have a million outs to call with, even if a player flops a flush. BTW, I can't say that I've ever heard anyone say that you should discount outs due to the possibility of someone having folded one. Someone could have folded a five preflop, too; hands that fold are completely unknowable. I could see someone playing KQ this way. Possibly even AK, if he were aggressive postflop and kinda passive preflop. In fact, I isolation raised a fish earlier this evening that limped in with AK. Unfortunately, I was isolation raising with KTs and a K came on the flop. The fish went nuts, 3-betting the flop and betting the turn and river. Not pretty. And not terribly fishy, either, now that I think about it. Whatever.

Anyway, you were definitely getting odds to call the flop and turn, imho, and, getting 12.5-1, I would call the river, too. I doubt he put you on QQ, seing as how you just cold-called preflop...

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

wow 3bet preflop please

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

Responding blind: ye...urk, urk, I looked at it, ugh, aaaaaiiiiiiieeeeeee! WTF?



[ QUOTE ]
I normally raise a high pair, but with so many callers in front of me, I figured I wasn't going to drive out a K-x or A-x and I would have to chuck my hand anyway if the flop gave out overcards without a queen. I had also been pushing high pairs earlier, so this looked like an opportunity to mix it up and hope to win a lot of bets if the queen hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gack! You push big pairs because you've got big equity. 3 cold-callers are 3 people that aren't going to fold no matter how many bets they have to call. RAISE!

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, when I got bet-reraised I knew what I was up against.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you didn't. This could just as well be AK, in which case you're ahead, or another jackass "mixing it up" with KK (in which case you're drawing nearly dead, btw) or even AA.

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to need to pair the board to win. At the time, I was doing a quick 1+6 count of the possible outs (the queen plus the other three suits of the flop cards) to justify calling this down. That was a mistake with respect to the King because that's a likely card that got folded by at least one of the other players. But at this point, to call the reraise, the pot is offering immediate odds of 9-1. I'd be lying if I did the math during the heat of the hand, but I was figuring that if I missed pairing the board on the turn, that would create more outs to pair the board on the river, which would make up for the effective odds for calling one bet on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all nonsense. There is no way on Earth you're going to be able to convince anybody that you should have folded the flop with a set of queens. Just stop trying. You don't need to count outs, here, either; just focus any brainpower you have available after tending to the needs of sustaining life on finding and clicking the "bet" and "raise" buttons.

[ QUOTE ]
Did I talk myself into being a donkey this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean, "did I assume that MP3 had a flush and play like a pu$$y?" then the answer is yes. You need to, at a minimum, find one more raise. Personally, I'd put it in on the turn, and call down if MP3 3-bets.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is all nonsense. There is no way on Earth you're going to be able to convince anybody that you should have folded the flop with a set of queens. Just stop trying. You don't need to count outs, here, either; just focus any brainpower you have available after tending to the needs of sustaining life on finding and clicking the "bet" and "raise" buttons.

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD. BTW It is now a tight race for misplayed hand of the week is it not? Can someone please open-fold TT from the SB for the clear win?

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

Re-Raise Preflop

I like the re-reraise on the flop probally should cap "I would at least"

He bets turn I would call down.

IMO not the most credible source

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

Grunch:

Well, i still think you should reraise, for value preflop. Most probably you have best hand preflop + great position.

I actually think, that villain does not have the flush that often here. I would rather thinkt that 3 bet means, top pair + flush draw or just A high flush draw. People like to play these aggressive. Of course it sort of depends on the read that you have on this particular villain. So theres no way you can fold it here, i think YHIG a lot more than beat here.

I would just called the reraise on the flop, and raised villain on the turn if no heart pops up.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is all nonsense. There is no way on Earth you're going to be able to convince anybody that you should have folded the flop with a set of queens. Just stop trying. You don't need to count outs, here, either; just focus any brainpower you have available after tending to the needs of sustaining life on finding and clicking the "bet" and "raise" buttons.

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD. BTW It is now a tight race for misplayed hand of the week is it not? Can someone please open-fold TT from the SB for the clear win?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Three people calling a raise in front of me and I shouldn't guess that at least one of them did so with a king.

As it turned out, the player did flop a flush, which I left out of the original post, but if you're going to dismiss my ability to read hands at the table, I feel compelled to bring it up.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]

As it turned out, the player did flop a flush, which I left out of the original post, but if you're going to dismiss my ability to read hands at the table, I feel compelled to bring it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are beeing results oriented. Of course sometimes he will have a flush there, but a lot of times someone will be scaring you off with a worse hand than yours and you will be losing value.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right. Three people calling a raise in front of me and I shouldn't guess that at least one of them did so with a king.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's your ability to read your own post that has me concerned now.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, Q.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.
&lt;snip out bad excuse for not 3-betting a hand that is better than 166 of the 169 possible.&gt;

lop: (13 SB) Q, K, 5 (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls.


[/ QUOTE ]

The only time anybody called a raise in front of you was before you, or anyone else knew the K would ever show its royal face. As far as 'a King' goes, Dude you have a [censored] set, who cares about 'a king'?

edited top fix typo

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As it turned out, the player did flop a flush, which I left out of the original post, but if you're going to dismiss my ability to read hands at the table, I feel compelled to bring it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are beeing results oriented. Of course sometimes he will have a flush there, but a lot of times someone will be scaring you off with a worse hand than yours and you will be losing value.

[/ QUOTE ]

To an extent, yes, but I did call it down even at the river bet. (I didn't show that in the original post, because I thought it wasn't relevant.)

To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

I think that often villian will play AKo this way when he holds the A of the suit. Villian could also have a lower set or two pair. You also don't seem to fully understand how pot equity applies in this situation. Although in this case raising would have lost you money - if you play every situation like this the same you will make money over time. Re-reraise the flop - don't go into call down mode hoping to spike a pair. Asw strong as your hand is there are other people drawing to hands that might beat your set and expensive second best hands. Please charge them.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

3-bet pre-flop. Cap the flop.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Table is loose, a few are aggressive.
Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Flop: (13 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, to put this in hand reading terms, there are simply loads of hands LAGs will bet, cold call and reraise that are behind you here. Even a 5 and a 1 card 4-flush could be a re-raise if they're very LAGgy. All you're afraid of here is KK and the made flush. No evidence of KK pre-flop, so I don't think fear of the flush is enough to go into call down mode.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

There is no excuse for not 3betting PF. You are raising for value. The rationale you gave doesn't make sense.

And I would not assume that you are up against a flush on the flop just because you got 3bet. While it is possible, you could up against a K or somebody with the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I would cap the flop and call down from the turn if he still leads out. There is no question about whether to fold the river or not, don't. You win this hand a large percentage of the time.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone please open-fold TT from the SB for the clear win?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I love Jerry:

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero folds</font>

Final Pot: .75 BB

I figured it was only 9 handed, so BB had position on me and was going to push me off it, anyway, when the flop came AKQ monotone. I figured I'd save myself the trouble.

(Do you know how long I had to play before I finally got it folded to me with TT in the SB?!)

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I figured it was only 9 handed, so BB had position on me and was going to push me off it, anyway, when the flop came AKQ monotone. I figured I'd save myself the trouble.

(Do you know how long I had to play before I finally got it folded to me with TT in the SB?!)

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])))))))

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

Preflop: You hate money if you don't 3 bet here.

Table is loose and aggressive right. Cap the flop. You can slow down and just call down if he leads the turn. Folding the river would be a pretty giant mistake IMO.

I think this has already been said but you have a very strong hand here, sure this guy might have a flush, but he could also just have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], AK, two pair, or a set. Looking for folds in these spots is not the way to go.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can someone please open-fold TT from the SB for the clear win?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I love Jerry:

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero folds</font>

Final Pot: .75 BB

I figured it was only 9 handed, so BB had position on me and was going to push me off it, anyway, when the flop came AKQ monotone. I figured I'd save myself the trouble.

(Do you know how long I had to play before I finally got it folded to me with TT in the SB?!)

[/ QUOTE ]

that was serious?? hahahhahahahaha

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

This is funnier than this.

If this is real you are my freakin Hero!!!!!!!!!1

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is funnier than this.

If this is real you are my freakin Hero!!!!!!!!!1

[/ QUOTE ]

I always thought the sup bro thread was pretty lame.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

[/ QUOTE ]

So much for your defense of your hand-reading skills. If your opponent flopped the AA333 boat then your AK must have flopped better than top-pair [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. And, putting a Villan on a specific hand because he 3-bets a flop, just because the flop is scary, is not hand-reading, it's MUBS. I've seen Vills 3-bet this same flop with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...hell, I might do that myself, depending on what I thought of you.

And, grapabo, this thread is as results-oriented as it gets. Your call-down was correct. Not capping the flop and raising the turn was incorrect.

Here's a thought problem for you: everything is the same in your hand; the action on the flop goes: check, check, check, check, Vill bets, you raise, 4 folds, Vill shows you 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3-bets, what's your plan for the rest of the hand? (Hint: you have to act on at least the flop and the turn.)

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Right. Three people calling a raise in front of me and I shouldn't guess that at least one of them did so with a king.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this some kind of special table where they play any K? What about an Ace? If 2 people play a K you want to raise it even more!!! That means there are only 2 Kings left in the deck? Hmm special table = special deck? Is this a 10 King deck? Seriously, you need to 3-bet this PF, the odds are that a king will not flop and you have a huge equity edge. If you would of 3-bet PF, maybe MP3 folds his J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] after trying to limp in cheaply?

[ QUOTE ]
As it turned out, the player did flop a flush, which I left out of the original post, but if you're going to dismiss my ability to read hands at the table, I feel compelled to bring it up.

[/ QUOTE ] Weaksauce! That is being results oriented. So you know that someone limping or cold calling after 2-4 other cold callers means they have an Ace or King? Not 22-99, or 9Ts-JQs???? or any 2 cards looking to flop a monster, or are just morons, or .... you get it I think

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

[/ QUOTE ]

So much for your defense of your hand-reading skills. If your opponent flopped the AA333 boat then your AK must have flopped better than top-pair [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. And, putting a Villan on a specific hand because he 3-bets a flop, just because the flop is scary, is not hand-reading, it's MUBS. I've seen Vills 3-bet this same flop with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...hell, I might do that myself, depending on what I thought of you.

And, grapabo, this thread is as results-oriented as it gets. Your call-down was correct. Not capping the flop and raising the turn was incorrect.

Here's a thought problem for you: everything is the same in your hand; the action on the flop goes: check, check, check, check, Vill bets, you raise, 4 folds, Vill shows you 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3-bets, what's your plan for the rest of the hand? (Hint: you have to act on at least the flop and the turn.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

Also, since your post title referred to outs...
What if SB called your raise on the flop? How would this change your thinking of the hand? What would your play be? Would you be more likely to cap, fold, or call?

This is actually a place where you can count on outs that haven't actually appeared yet.. I will explain my thinking once you reply.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

: newbie grunch - I may be off-beam :

I think the conventional wisdom is that this pot is too large not to call the river.

It is by no means certain he has the flush, it is only certain that none of the folders had it ;o)

If I remember correctly the salient quote is "nobody made much money making difficult folds on the river". You've got trips, you could easily have the other guy beat: bearing in mind your read of the table the likelihood of this increases.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't talking about passivity. COUNT YOUR OUTS ON THE FLOP AND TURN if you KNOW 100% that Vill HAS THE FLUSH. Then tell me what you would do on the flop and turn.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

[/ QUOTE ]

So much for your defense of your hand-reading skills. If your opponent flopped the AA333 boat then your AK must have flopped better than top-pair [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. And, putting a Villan on a specific hand because he 3-bets a flop, just because the flop is scary, is not hand-reading, it's MUBS. I've seen Vills 3-bet this same flop with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...hell, I might do that myself, depending on what I thought of you.

And, grapabo, this thread is as results-oriented as it gets. Your call-down was correct. Not capping the flop and raising the turn was incorrect.

Here's a thought problem for you: everything is the same in your hand; the action on the flop goes: check, check, check, check, Vill bets, you raise, 4 folds, Vill shows you 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3-bets, what's your plan for the rest of the hand? (Hint: you have to act on at least the flop and the turn.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is going from bad to worse, even in my unworthy newbie eyes.

You played with a bankroll that crippled your ability to play one hand without fear? I now have the image of my lovely Pacific people who sit down with $1 to play 5c/10c ring games, get dealt TT first hand and then blissfully toss it all in and then disappear.

I hardly dare to ask, but go on: what was your bankroll and what was the big bet?

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't talking about passivity. COUNT YOUR OUTS ON THE FLOP AND TURN if you KNOW 100% that Vill HAS THE FLUSH. Then tell me what you would do on the flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Counting full outs, it's the case queen + 6 cards on the flop -- &gt;6-1, pot giving 10-1 to call. If the flop is missed, it will be case queen + 9 cards -- 4.5-1, pot giving 11-2 to call.

If I jam it instead of call, it turns into 13-4 to play the flop and 17-8 to play the turn, plus the chance the villain might fold.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is going from bad to worse, even in my unworthy newbie eyes.

You played with a bankroll that crippled your ability to play one hand without fear? I now have the image of my lovely Pacific people who sit down with $1 to play 5c/10c ring games, get dealt TT first hand and then blissfully toss it all in and then disappear.

I hardly dare to ask, but go on: what was your bankroll and what was the big bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite that small. I had available between 50 and 100 big bets in a limit game (I know the optimum bankroll is larger than that), but I had been getting clobbered in big hands already this night and, well, as you can see, got a little gun-shy.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

I've never flamed anyone on this forum, but this hand and OP's reasoning make me want to really bad. Lets just say I read the hand and vomited all over my screen and leave it at that.

Read or reread SSHE and THINK about what it says...please.

[censored]!

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it will be case queen + 9 cards

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I was eluding to in my post. You know your pretty much gonna show this down unless a 4th heart comes and you don't pair the board (still read dependant), so you basically have 10 outs to work with here.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is going from bad to worse, even in my unworthy newbie eyes.

You played with a bankroll that crippled your ability to play one hand without fear? I now have the image of my lovely Pacific people who sit down with $1 to play 5c/10c ring games, get dealt TT first hand and then blissfully toss it all in and then disappear.

I hardly dare to ask, but go on: what was your bankroll and what was the big bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite that small. I had available between 50 and 100 big bets in a limit game (I know the optimum bankroll is larger than that), but I had been getting clobbered in big hands already this night and, well, as you can see, got a little gun-shy.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is very naughty to be playing at a level where you have only 50 to 100 BB. Please act on what you know. Not acting on what you know to be right is not good.

I think you 'tilt' in the same way I do. Rather than throwing chips around I retreat into my shell. Which, when you consider I play less aggressively than I should anyway, is something to work on.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

So if you only had $100 why aren't you playing .10/.20. We poked a little fun at you and I hope your feelings aren't hurt, too bad. But you need to hear this.
If you don't understand getting your money in the pot when you are over 98% certain to have the best hand, then you have some serious studying/thinking to do before you play even one more hand of poker at any stake.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

This should be the post of the week. Not to be unduly harsh but this is one of the main leaks in micro limit players hands. Pushing not so small edges. You think to much about the math, priortize your learning you have an aggression problem. A lack of aggression. I understand, I used to be a nut peddler, then one day I was tired of running scared, looking for ways I was beat, and decided not to have a defeatist attitude.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Re-Raise Preflop

I like the re-reraise on the flop probally should cap "I would at least"

He bets turn I would call down.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is my line too. Cap the flop, call down after that.

[ QUOTE ]

IMO not the most credible source

[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to know what you are talking about here.

Re: Did I overcount my outs?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This should be the post of the week. Not to be unduly harsh but this is one of the main leaks in micro limit players hands. Pushing not so small edges. You think to much about the math, priortize your learning you have an aggression problem. A lack of aggression. I understand, I used to be a nut peddler, then one day I was tired of running scared, looking for ways I was beat, and decided not to have a defeatist attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of nut peddling in the micros and it really hurts their bottom line which is $$$$$.

I'm not a NL expert (I'm not even that good at NL IMO and by no means a limit expert either [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), but I can definitely see nut peddling as a viable line in micro NL because you can make up those missed bets (very easily by my experience). The problems in limit are obvious.. you only have a fixed number of opporunuties to make bets and those bets are of fixed amount.

In limit, you need to push your edges to maximize your returns.