top set on flush board
 

Live 1/2

I'm UTG in a relatively loose live game, when I'm dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Now I absolutely HATE playing JJ--so I make this hand $16 to go, hoping to end the action right there, rake my 3 bucks and move on to the next hand.

UTG ($137) bets $16
UTG +2 ($130) calls
Button ($45) calls
BB (~$65) calls

So, with $65 in the pot, the flop comes:

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

While I'm not happy with the four hearts, I am 99% sure I'm ahead.

The only fear I have is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], but I'm thinking that hand raises preflop, hoping to win right there. Even against a flush, I still have seven one-card outs on the turn, and likely 10 on the river.

An overpair with a heart is also a possibility.

As far as reads go, UTG +1 has been pretty loose. I've seen him play a lot of hands, showing some marginal ones, but I don't see him paying $16 on small hearts, connected or otherwise.

I know the Button player to be the type to play any two cards. He is capable of moving on a pot with nothing. But he's not suicidal--he'll get out of the way of perceived strength if he doesn't have outs.

BB has been rock-tight. He has played very few hands, only showing down winners.

I know what I did--What's your move?

Re: top set on flush board
 

pot sized bet - if I get raised, I'm pushing

Re: top set on flush board
 

I think I'd put a pot-sized or even bigger bet. Another alternative might the check-raise. Even if it is checked around, nothing on the turn scares you too much except another heart, in which case you get out cheap.

Re: top set on flush board
 

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I think I'd put a pot-sized or even bigger bet. Another alternative might the check-raise. Even if it is checked around, nothing on the turn scares you too much except another heart, in which case you get out cheap.

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No free cards here. I don't want to get out, since I have redraws to a full house.

Re: top set on flush board
 

A lot depends on the type of players I'm up against and how many.
I'm going to bet the pot most of the time though. Some loose passive players will call a decent bet with one heart there, but will also check it through if you check unless they have the flush in which case you can crying-call hoping to make your house. If it is checked through, 75% of the time a blank will hit the turn and you can be fairly confident you're ahead and bet strongly on the turn.

As I say, I'd favour the big bet, but I don't think checking is an awful play, depending on the circumstances.

Re: top set on flush board
 

i guess you know the table, but people call raises with a lot more hands that flop flushes here than AKs.

this must be a capped buyin game given the stack sizes. with stacks this size, betting almost any amount has to be correct here. after the flop your opponents have about 115, 30 and 50.

i assume BB checked and action is on you. if you bet and UTG calls, button and BB are calling/going all in with any set or any big heart. with stacks this short i can't imagine not having at least a three-way all in here. i love the 1/3 stack PF call here from "rock tight" BB.

if we want a multiway pot, i'm tempted to bet $30 here, let UTG and button call, BB goes all in, and you reraise allin. if you think you're up against a made flush from one of the shorties, this gives you the best odds to draw out.

but, you were positive you were ahead, so i shoot out $60 and call if next to act raises all in.

Re: top set on flush board
 

this is a very easy push, the reason you push is that a PSB is giving UTG+2 great odds to draw if he's got a flush draw because the shorties can only call all in. He knows that at least one of the other two players are very likely to call all in and both might....since that is the case, he'll call a PSB knowing he's going to get odds...if you push he isn't...hopefully he'll fold out and one or both of the shorties will come along, and you stand to be ahead.

Re: top set on flush board
 

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i guess you know the table, but people call raises with a lot more hands that flop flushes here than AKs.

This must be a capped buyin game given the stack sizes.

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True--I suppose something like KQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] could have called me down, but at this table, I'd doubt smaller connectors would have made the call. Generally, smallish raises were disregarded, but raises of 5x or more were generally respected.

On the stacks--there was no formal cap at the table, but most bought in for $40-60. Some more, some less.

And yes, the BB did check after the flop.

Re: top set on flush board
 

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pot sized bet - if I get raised, I'm pushing

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Thats my line aswell. IMHO checking is horrible

Re: top set on flush board
 

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On the stacks--there was no formal cap at the table, but most bought in for $40-60. Some more, some less.



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unreal. it's like a shortstack convention.

Re: top set on flush board
 

pot the flop

Results
 

BB checked to me, I led out $50, with the intent to call if UTG+1 pushes.

My thinking was that I'd get UTG+1 to muck and probably get one of the others to call.

Checking was never an option. Even though I felt one of the last three would take a shot at this, I wanted to try to price those on a flush draw out.

Anyway, UTG+1 pushes, others muck, I call.

He shows A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I guess he figured me for top pair?

Turn comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], River T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

That's poker. Right move--just got unlucky.

FWIW, UTG+1 says later he would have called an all-in, but I guess it's easy to say that after the fact.

Re: top set on flush board
 

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this is a very easy push, the reason you push is that a PSB is giving UTG+2 great odds to draw if he's got a flush draw because the shorties can only call all in. He knows that at least one of the other two players are very likely to call all in and both might....since that is the case, he'll call a PSB knowing he's going to get odds...if you push he isn't...hopefully he'll fold out and one or both of the shorties will come along, and you stand to be ahead.

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I'm still inclined to pot it. I don't care if anyone calls on a flush draw. Let says UTG+2 only calls a PSB of $65 and the two shorties fold. Now the pot has $195, and I have $72 left in my stack. Even if the 4th heart comes on the turn, I am getting all-in because the remaining $72 from me and $72 from UTG+2's flush puts the pot at $339 meaning my $72 is getting 4.7 to 1 pot odds. With 10 outs on the river, I'm 3.6 to 1 to improve to a full house or quad J's, so I've got the odds to redraw. Might as well let them all draw on the flop then and pot size bet it then. The pot odds get even better if the shorties join the fun. Certainly a gambling approach to the hand versus blowing everyone out with an all-in on the flop, but I've got the correct odds to make that gamble.

Re: top set on flush board
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is a very easy push, the reason you push is that a PSB is giving UTG+2 great odds to draw if he's got a flush draw because the shorties can only call all in. He knows that at least one of the other two players are very likely to call all in and both might....since that is the case, he'll call a PSB knowing he's going to get odds...if you push he isn't...hopefully he'll fold out and one or both of the shorties will come along, and you stand to be ahead.

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I totally agree - just open push. This is a nightmare with the shorties in the pot. You need to guarantee seeing all five cards as you may be drawing or redrawing.

Re: top set on flush board
 

if utg+1 calls and the other shorties do, he's getting the right price to draw. If you push, he isn't. Give him a chance to make a mistake.

Re: top set on flush board
 

Shove it in.

Re: top set on flush board
 

push