Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

Any lurking around in here?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

none

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

The most anarchocapitalist society in the world is really a success story:

Paradise?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The most anarchocapitalist society in the world is really a success story:

Paradise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because Somalia used to be a huge success story back when it had a government, right?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The most anarchocapitalist society in the world is really a success story:

Paradise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh good grief. Not this crap again.

The debris left after the collapse of a government != an anarchocapitalistic society.

Chaos left after US and UN nation building efforts != an anarchocapitalistic society.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

Compared to its anarchocapitalist present, yes. By any other measure, no. Yeah man, the market and liberal economic theories predicated on an infinite resource pool are really practical! Beat your neighbor with a bat, for the lowest bidder!

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Compared to its anarchocapitalist present, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

The debris left after the collapse of a government != an anarchocapitalistic society.

Chaos left after US and UN nation building efforts != an anarchocapitalistic society.

[ QUOTE ]
By any other measure, no. Yeah man, the market and liberal economic theories predicated on an infinite resource pool are really practical!

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Ok. I can stop paying attention to you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

haha.

You are funny. Do you know what capitalism is? I didn't think so.

Kids these days. Too [censored] lazy to learn some economics.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

How is the results of society today different than the results of an Anarchocapatalist society? There is no global government, and people have chosen to or been forced to create governments.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
haha.

You are funny. Do you know what capitalism is? I didn't think so.

Kids these days. Too [censored] lazy to learn some economics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you expand on what capitalism is?

**gets popcorn**

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Compared to its anarchocapitalist present, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

The debris left after the collapse of a government != an anarchocapitalistic society.

Chaos left after US and UN nation building efforts != an anarchocapitalistic society.

[ QUOTE ]
By any other measure, no. Yeah man, the market and liberal economic theories predicated on an infinite resource pool are really practical!

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Ok. I can stop paying attention to you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, show us a implementation of it that has been successful.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

They were banished on an Island with PVN to establish their unestablishable society.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, show us a implementation of it that has been successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

So according to your implied logic, if you can't show me, for example, a lunar colony that has been successful, that makes it impossible?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, show us a implementation of it that has been successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

So according to your implied logic, if you can't show me, for example, a lunar colony that has been successful, that makes it impossible?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it can not be proved until after an unlimited amount of experiments, but experiments conducted can show if it is likely or not to succeed.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

One thing about anarcho-capitalists: They produce more than enough strawmen to satisfy the market.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, show us a implementation of it that has been successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

So according to your implied logic, if you can't show me, for example, a lunar colony that has been successful, that makes it impossible?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it can not be proved until after an unlimited amount of experiments, but experiments conducted can show if it is likely or not to succeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what was the point of your snide remark?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, show us a implementation of it that has been successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

So according to your implied logic, if you can't show me, for example, a lunar colony that has been successful, that makes it impossible?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it can not be proved until after an unlimited amount of experiments, but experiments conducted can show if it is likely or not to succeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what was the point of your snide remark?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was snide, since you seem to be 100% sure that anarchocapitalism is the way to go but you are not providing any thoughtful reasoning or empirical evidence for that; and you seem to think those who disagree with you are less intelligent/ cunning than you.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

What is it about statists that they have to come crawling out of the woodwork insulting people at every opportunity? I asked if there were any anarchocapitalists around. Is it too much to ask that if a) you're not an anarchocapitalist, and b) you have nothing but snarky remarks to make, you just shut the [censored] up? I suppose it is.

It's not as if I started a thread proselytizing.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It was snide, since you seem to be 100% sure that anarchocapitalism is the way to go but you are not providing any thoughtful reasoning or empirical evidence for that; and you seem to think those who disagree with you are less intelligent/ cunning than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 100% sure it was snide because you're a jerk. But be that as it may, I didn't start a thread to debate the merits of anarchocapitalism. I simply asked if there were any lurking around. Of course I think anarchocapitalism is the way to go, or else I wouldn't be an anarchocapitalist. But again . . . I didn't start a thread to proselytize or debate anarchocapitalism. I just asked if any where around. You, in your infinite superiority, couldn't let this opporunity for a sarcastic remark slide past, and posted your link to Somalia, implying that Somalia was somehow an example of anarchocapitalism. I didn't imply anyone was less intelligent or "cunning" than myself, except perhaps the guy who doesn't know what capitalism is (I'm still waiting for his treatise). All I pointed out was that the wreckage left over after a government runs itself into the ground is not an example of anarchocapitalism. And rather than just conceding this simple and rather obvious point [or rebutt it], you come up with a snide remark.

So spare me the moral high ground attitude about who believes they are more intelligent and or cunning.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

People being as defensive of you usually don't have much to back up their statement. I was not posting Somalia as a snide remark, I was posting it to show you how extreme anarchocapitalism turns out. A lot of creative, innovative business models, but a complete lack of i.e. road building and a lack of investment capital.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was snide, since you seem to be 100% sure that anarchocapitalism is the way to go but you are not providing any thoughtful reasoning or empirical evidence for that; and you seem to think those who disagree with you are less intelligent/ cunning than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 100% sure it was snide because you're a jerk. But be that as it may, I didn't start a thread to debate the merits of anarchocapitalism. I simply asked if there were any lurking around. Of course I think anarchocapitalism is the way to go, or else I wouldn't be an anarchocapitalist. But again . . . I didn't start a thread to proselytize or debate anarchocapitalism. I just asked if any where around. You, in your infinite superiority, couldn't let this opporunity for a sarcastic remark slide past, and posted your link to Somalia, implying that Somalia was somehow an example of anarchocapitalism. I didn't imply anyone was less intelligent or "cunning" than myself, except perhaps the guy who doesn't know what capitalism is (I'm still waiting for his treatise). All I pointed out was that the wreckage left over after a government runs itself into the ground is not an example of anarchocapitalism. And rather than just conceding this simple and rather obvious point [or rebutt it], you come up with a snide remark.

So spare me the moral high ground attitude about who believes they are more intelligent and or cunning.

[/ QUOTE ]


Many AC believers cite Somalia of an example of working AC. That said, PVN is a fellow traveller of yours. Can everyone just STFU now?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

anarchocapitalists?!

Is this thread dedicated to making up words without making up a meaning?

Here's mine: thisthreadisreallystupid

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
People being as defensive [as] you usually don't have much to back up their statement[s].

[/ QUOTE ]

What a brilliant generalization. Again, who is it that has the superiority complex?

[ QUOTE ]
I was not posting Somalia as a snide remark, I was posting it to show you how extreme anarchocapitalism turns out. A lot of creative, innovative business models, but a complete lack of [infrastructure ?] i.e. road building and a lack of investment capital.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding right? No, I guess not. Modern day Somalia isn't how anarchocapitalism "turns out." It's how government turns out. Or is it your contention that Somalia has never had a government?

Most of Somalia's national wealth, economy, and infrastructure was destroyed by its government during it's collapse and the subsequent civil wars among competing warlords (i.e. would-be governments), and much of its population has fled the violence. Somalia's economy has also been hurt by Saudi Arabia's restriction on the importation of Somalian beef (I believe due to health concerns if I remember correctly; Green Valley Fever maybe?).

Still, Somalia has resisted the attempted installation of a government for more than a decade now. Even though land telecommunications infrastructure was totally destroyed during and subsequent to the government collapse, a cellular based, completely private telecommunications industry has sprund up that offers the lowest rates on the continent, and above average service availability and reliability.

Somalia has a long way to go before it has recovered from its governmental hangover. But trying to blame its problems on the LACK of a government rather than on the government that caused them is sophistry.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Many AC believers cite Somalia of an example of working AC.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe there are hopeful signs in Somalia. But Somalia still has tremendous problems owing to its former government. And calling Somalia anarchocapitalist allows the intellectually lacadaisical to blame its problems on lack of government rather than the government(s) that caused them. As we have seen.

[ QUOTE ]
That said, PVN is a fellow traveller of yours. Can everyone just STFU now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

So how are you going to implement anarchocapitalism if you are not going to base it on removing a government in place?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
So how are you going to implement anarchocapitalism if you are not going to base it on removing a government in place?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything about not removing existing governments? Or me "implementing anarchocapitalism" for that matter?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was not posting Somalia as a snide remark, I was posting it to show you how extreme anarchocapitalism turns out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except Somalia does NOT show how extreme anarchocapitalism "turns out". It shows how semi-extreme anarcho-capitalism *progresses* when it starts with total chaos, disrespect, and lawlessness - conditions spawed by a completely disasterous statist regime.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any lurking around in here?

[/ QUOTE ]

They all got shot for 5 bucks by a guy with a bigger gun.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

You are right. Somalia is not an anarcho-capitalist society. Because anrcho-capitalism is a utopian pipe dream with no more chance of existing in the real world than Marx's vision of communism. To put it more succinctly Somalia:anarcho-capitalism = Cuba:Marxism.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are right. Somalia is not an anarcho-capitalist society. Because anrcho-capitalism is a utopian pipe dream with no more chance of existing in the real world than Marx's vision of communism. To put it more succinctly Somalia:anarcho-capitalism = Cuba:Marxism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ability to analogize is woefully lacking.

The problems of Somalia and Cuba are both caused by government, not its absence.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

So is anarcho-capitalism not possible since any where it would be implemented at one time probably had a government?

You sound a lot like someone who believes in communism but dismisses the commonly practiced kinds as "not real communism".

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
So is anarcho-capitalism not possible since any where it would be implemented at one time probably had a government?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logical analysis suffers as much as your analogies. I stated that the problems of Somalia are due to government, not its absence. I also pointed out that some of those problems are actually getting better, like the telecommunications industry, in the absence of a government. At no point did I make any statement as to the time frame that might be required for for a stable anarchocapitalist society to arise after a government had ceased to operate.

[ QUOTE ]
You sound a lot like someone who believes in communism but dismisses the commonly practiced kinds as "not real communism".

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound a lot like someone who has little idea what they are talking about before they start typing. What anarchocapitalist authors have you read before forming your opinion that it is a "Utopian pipe dream?" Clearly you didn't pay much attention, because anarchocapitalism is non-Utopian.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
So is anarcho-capitalism not possible since any where it would be implemented at one time probably had a government?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. The current situation in Somalia is closer to AC than has been seen recently, and the status there is not exactly rosy; however, one cannot simply use this as a disproof of AC out-of-hand, since the conditions that were set by the (failed) state severely hobbled *any* subsequent system, whether it be anarchist or statist.

Let's do an experiment with identical twins about to enter high school. We let one eat doughnuts all day and make him watch MTV and play video games. The other one goes to a rigorous prep school and then Harvard for four years. At the end of the four years, we'll see which one does better on a SAT-type test.

Oh, one other thing... we're going to to start by lobotomizing the one that goes to Harvard.

Now, when the lobotomized twin does worse, can we conclude that Harvard makes you dumber than playing video games?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

What's anarchocapitalism?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

I consider myself kind of libertarian, if that's the same thing. Not sure on your terminology.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

My point was will any problems that occur while AC is in effect always be attributed to the preceding government's actions or can there be problems that occur under AC?

I think one of the biggest problems I had with AC is that justice becomes a commodity to be bought and sold and those who can't afford whatever price justice would cost are dependent upon charity. And if charity can't provide it, I guess they're SOL under AC...

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
My point was will any problems that occur while AC is in effect always be attributed to the preceding government's actions or can there be problems that occur under AC?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course problems will occur in an anarchocapitalist society. Society is made up of human beings, isn't it?

[ QUOTE ]
I think one of the biggest problems I had with AC is that justice becomes a commodity to be bought and sold and those who can't afford whatever price justice would cost are dependent upon charity. And if charity can't provide it, I guess they're SOL under AC...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if you've looked around lately, but justice is already a commodity to be bought and sold, and if you currently can't afford whatever price justice costs, you are dependent upon charity. And since that "charity" is usually provided by the very government which is exacting the price, you are usually SOL under government.

Justice like any other service is just that, a service. Monopoly service providers always provide poorer service and higher costs than providers of the same service in a competitive market. Viewing justice as some sort of magical process that can only be provided for by government, in order to justify government, is circular.

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's anarchocapitalism?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure, but this is what an anarcho-syndicalist commune is

Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: MAN!
Arthur: Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
Dennis: I'm 37.
Arthur: What?
Dennis: I'm 37! I'm not old!
Arthur: Well, I can't just call you "man".
Dennis: You could say "Dennis".
Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out, did you?
Arthur: I did say I'm sorry about the "old woman", but from behind you looked...
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treatin' me like an inferior.
Arthur: Well, I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king, eh - very nice. And how'd you get that, then? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress...
Dennis' Mother: Dennis, Dennis! There's some lovely filth down here. Oh, how'd you do?
Arthur: How'd you do good lady? I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Dennis' Mother: King of the who?
Arthur: The Britons.
Dennis' Mother: Who are the Britons?
Arthur: We all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king.
Dennis' Mother: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You're foolin' yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Dennis' Mother: Oh there you go bringing class into it again!
Dennis: But that's what it's all about! If only people would realise...
Arthur: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Dennis' Mother: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Dennis' Mother: We don't have a lord.
Arthur: What?!
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort of supreme executive officer for the week.
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:...by a simple majority. In the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: Be quiet.
Dennis:...require two thirds majority. In the case of old ladys...
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Dennis' Mother: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Dennis' Mother: Well, I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Dennis' Mother: Well, how'd you become King, then?
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake,... [Angel chorus begins singing in background] her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [Angel chorus ends] That is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: But you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: Shut up, will you? Shut up! [Grabs Dennis and shakes him]
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if you've looked around lately, but justice is already a commodity to be bought and sold, and if you currently can't afford whatever price justice costs, you are dependent upon charity. And since that "charity" is usually provided by the very government which is exacting the price, you are usually SOL under government.

[/ QUOTE ]
I realize that the "rich" can afford "better" attorneys and are more likely to get off, but at least under the current system there is a garuantee of "your day in court".

Another question: what type of punishment would be dealt out to those who commit serious crimes such as rape and murder? The punishments couldn't just be monetary. Surely these people can't be allowed to run free. So are there going to be private jails? What authority would PrisonMart have to lock me up? In the case where monetary damage is the judgement of JusticeMart, what's to stop me from refusing to pay?

Re: Looking for fellow anarchocapitalists.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's anarchocapitalism?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure, but this is what an anarcho-syndicalist commune is

Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: MAN!
Arthur: Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
Dennis: I'm 37.
Arthur: What?
Dennis: I'm 37! I'm not old!
Arthur: Well, I can't just call you "man".
Dennis: You could say "Dennis".
Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out, did you?
Arthur: I did say I'm sorry about the "old woman", but from behind you looked...
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treatin' me like an inferior.
Arthur: Well, I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king, eh - very nice. And how'd you get that, then? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress...
Dennis' Mother: Dennis, Dennis! There's some lovely filth down here. Oh, how'd you do?
Arthur: How'd you do good lady? I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Dennis' Mother: King of the who?
Arthur: The Britons.
Dennis' Mother: Who are the Britons?
Arthur: We all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king.
Dennis' Mother: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You're foolin' yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Dennis' Mother: Oh there you go bringing class into it again!
Dennis: But that's what it's all about! If only people would realise...
Arthur: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Dennis' Mother: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Dennis' Mother: We don't have a lord.
Arthur: What?!
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort of supreme executive officer for the week.
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:...by a simple majority. In the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: Be quiet.
Dennis:...require two thirds majority. In the case of old ladys...
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Dennis' Mother: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Dennis' Mother: Well, I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Dennis' Mother: Well, how'd you become King, then?
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake,... [Angel chorus begins singing in background] her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [Angel chorus ends] That is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: But you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: Shut up, will you? Shut up! [Grabs Dennis and shakes him]
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, great movie..