How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Hey guys, not a strategy question, but I got the PJ approval, and medium stakes is the preferred audience since 95% of us play live...

So I have been going out with her for almost 4 years now, and we are finally moving in together middle of December when she gets back from Argentina. She knows I play poker often (probably estimates it at about 60% of what I really do), but if she asks how I did, I always say something about losing $100 or $200 or winning $100 or $200.

She doesn't approve of 'gambling' and while she knows I am a winning player, doesn't like that it adds nothing to society. If I win for a given session, it cheapens her work for the day. I do have a full time job, so that definately lessens the amount of pain there, but it is still there. If I lose for a given session, it is obviously bad as well.

So things are probably going to get serious, and I imagine I will propose in the next 6 months to a year if living together goes well. But before I propose, and probably shortly after she starts living with me, I would like to come clean with how much I can win/lose in a given night. I have all my sessions tracked in Excel for the past 3 years, and have shown a profit every year. I do have some large losses of like $4000+ and wins of the same magnitude that might scare her.

So I know I need to be honest with her, because her finding out from one of my friends who know my activity would be 10x worse (would probably occur on a night of drinking, which would make the fight even worse).

So whats the best way to go about this. I don't want to do it until after xmas and us getting used to living together. But that means I will need to hide my money even better then I do now.

Is coming straight out and explaining it to her that it is a great outlet for my competitive nature, I enjoy it as a hobby, and I make a nice side income from it as well.

Buying her stuff with poker winnings wouldn't convince her of it, since she isn't the material/gold digging type.

So any advice/experiences would be welcomed while I prep myself for the 'talk'. Another wrinkle in it is that I hate working 9 to 5, and she loves her line of work, so I could see eventually me being a stay at home dad who plays poker 20-30 hours a week to make an income as well.

I don't know if it would be a deal breaker if she puts her foot down and says I can't play that much, but it just might be...I enjoy it that much.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

I hate to say it, but if she doesn't understand eventually then you are either really bad at explaining stuff, or she is just dumber than a sack of bricks. Every single intelligent person I have talked to about poker was able to understand it fairly quickly. The exception is if she really does have very deep rooted issues against gambling.

FWIW, it doesn't sound like she does. If she says "it's useless for society", it sounds like she is just expressing an opinion, and not like she is taking a life or death stand against gambling.

Also, if your poker BR is separate from your regular assets then it's none of her business if you set it in fire. She shouldn't care. Most winning players can lose their entire net worth and still be way way up in regards to poker. In other words, even if you were to go broke tomorrow, you wouldn't have a reason to regret playing poker in the past.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

I'm really surprised you've been able to keep it from her for this long after 4 years. It seems like it would just sort of come out at some point before this.

I don't think I'm qualified to give too good an answer here because I'm not at all in the same situation -- not only does my girlfriend love the fact that I play poker, but she begs to sit behind me when I do and she's started playing 4/8, because she got into it so quickly. I've tried to dissuade her, but if she's gonna play no matter what I say, at least I try to teach her. She always asks how much I won or lost every night, and although that annoys me to no end, I oblige her -- and when it's a big win she says nice job, and when it's a big loss she says "that's ok, you'll win it all back and more because you're a winning player."

So that said, I'm of the opinion that you should come clean as soon as possible, and do it by showing a chart/graph of your winnings. Tell her that every year you've supplemented your income with poker and that the extra money will help the two of you in things like traveling, car payments, insurance, etc., and that you're investing some of your winnings in like a Roth IRA or some crap.

Next, try to get her over the hump of poker=gambling. Try, as patiently as possible, to explain that it's a game where skill trumps luck. It's a sport. Tell her the reason the same 10 guys keep popping up on TV final tables is the same reason the same 10 rednecks keep winning NASCAR races. You get good at it and you win consistently. Tell her if you made a deal where you flipped a coin with her and every time it came up heads you'd pay her a dollar but every time it came up tails she'd pay you a dollar-fifty. She would reply she doesn't like the sound of that, and you tell her that all poker is is putting opponents in a situation where they're forced to take that wager or give up the pot. Tell her these losing nights are the times the coin came up heads, but in the long run it came up tails enough times to pay me back more than my fair share. And that statistically it's impossible for the tails person to ever lose money in the long run.

If she can't digest logic like that, tell her that she shouldn't be worried that poker is all you do since you have a full time job. Remind her that she trusts you and loves you and that you wouldn't be messing around with this money if it was just some silly risk; you respect her and you respect the value of money too much for that. Remind her you never "gamble" with it -- you never play blackjack (you don't, right?), craps, or bet on sports. You don't take wagers where you have the worst of it. You're smart and you have months upon months of data to prove it.

If she can't accept that, then you're screwed. But I hope she's cool enough that she doesn't force you to choose between her and poker.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Thanks for the good post PJ. I only 'gamble' when I go to Vegas, and that is 2-3 times a year, and the majority is still poker. The reason I have been able to 'keep' it from her is because I only started playing 20/40 regularly in June, and she left for Argentina in August. Before that, my main game was 8/16, in which I brought 600 or 800 to the casino, and a "win or loss" of 100 or 200 was a lot closer to realistic. With my shots at 40/80 and 30/60 in Vegas, the thousands are a lot more realistic, and when an average day at a real job is 200-300 for both of us, it will appear excessive. I have no doubts she will accept that I am a winning player, I don't think I put enough emphasis on the 'gambling' productive part of society part of the equation. When I bitch about not enjoying going to work every day, she jokingly tells me to quit and play poker, but I know it is a bluff, and decline and appease her everyime.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

if winning or losing $100-200 is a deal breaker for you or her than you have no sort of relationship worth taking seriously in the first place.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

It's probably more important that you not associate with people for whom you need to plan strategies to justify your existence. Four years is a long time but you have a lot more to go.

-Michael

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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if winning or losing $100-200 is a deal breaker for you or her than you have no sort of relationship worth taking seriously in the first place.

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i don't know if this is as much the case as sometimes people just aren't compatible.

my personal opinion, you need to sack up and come clean pronto. do it BEFORE you guys move in, as that will just make the situation more difficult when it comes to a head. i'm 32, but i've known alot of women in my days and there is one common characteristic that most any female of reasonable intelligence, self-esteem, and self-respect has in common: they hate to be lied to. i think if you sit down with her, explain the situation, and deal with it in a straightforward honest manner you are going to come out ahead in the long run. let here make the decision for herself whether or not she wants to be with you. hiding the truth from her is going to set a precedent that could infiltrate the core of your relationship and make here skeptical about EVERYTHING you say. in other words she won't be able to trust you, and a relationship without trust isn't a relationship worth having anyway.

sit her down(or take her to a really nice dinner), and ease here into the fact that you deal with more dollar volume than you have indicated to her in the past. a little tip, if you don't have a problem with white lies(which given your situation you don't seem to [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) tell here that you've recently began playing higher stakes or something. even doing this is dangerous, however, because as i said before females cherish trust(rightly so IMO) in a serious relationship above most anything else. if she finds out you weren't completely truthful with her, it could cause some serious damage later.

if you really care for her, do what's best for you both. come clean. if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you. you never know. good luck.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Do you have friends at the casino you play at? Are there nice restaurants?

My girl quickly changed her mind about me going away when I took her to the Borgata and introduced her around and went to a nice dinner. She understood that it wasn't just a place for low lifes and bums and that there were plenty of people like me who've become friends.

Seriously though, I agree with James and that you should just come out and tell her the truth about everything. She'l be more excited with your big wins and eventually come to understand the bad times.

(this pertains to my girl so it may not pertain to yours)
Honestly, my girlfriend could care less about how much I make/lose, she does however love to hear stories about the players and different people I've met. It makes it more real and a lot more interesting to her. So try that route.

I wish you both the best in solving this.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Totally agreed w/Jkamowitz. I took my g/f to vegas when she didn't know anything about gambling. Once she saw the inside of the bellagio and all the nice restaurants, I was home free. It also might help if you make a gangsta roll of your last months winnings. Then drop in the middle of the table when you having the conversation. It really helps drive home the point that this is your job and not just some hobby.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Agree that honesty is the way to go here for you.

We have a friend who got married years ago and found out(a few months after they were married)about the several enormous credit card balances that her husband had. She wan't too happy at all. Not good to hide anything like that. It can create huge problems later on.

As for your poker money, as long as you are keeping it completely seperate from your other $ that is good. I keep my poker roll completely seperate and I explained that to my wife. For my sessions I tell her how it went but she doesn't feel the need to ask me the exact amount I won or lost every time. If she asks I tell her. It also helped that I was able to play this year and use some of my profits on things like a hotel room or two, a new ring for my wife and I subsidized my 8 yr olds birthday party with some winnings [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. We sat down and talked and I told her that I really genuinely felt like I could do this for some income supplement. She sees me studying and talking about hands with buds here etc. so she knows that I am serious about it. She also sees that it does not consume my life and I balance out my various activities which is also important. You can also tell her how important it is to have her own indivdual activities to enjoy.

Good luck

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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Do you have friends at the casino you play at?

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I'll be your friend. Just let me know ahead of time and I'll clean up before you bring her. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'm also in accord w/ the others here: You have to tell her straight up exactly what you are doing, no holding back. There is no use trying to whitewash it or lie or make it seem different than what it is. I'd tell her everything and let her see it for herself by sitting behind you a few times. At least that won't be as boring as sitting behind me. I want to say it again: Be completely honest. So far I've seen 3 marriages break up over poker. I'd like to avoid a 4th.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Frankly, there's very little you can do, my friend. If she doesn't understand the basic math of poker, then all you say will go in one ear and out the other. Some people don't get it, like congressmen or my mother. They will always equate gambling with luck.

My ex was bipolar, and when she sat in front of a slot machine, she was playing until it was gone. Yet, she hated my playing poker and couldn't believe I wasn't just getting lucky. She never got comfortable, and we split, although more the bipolar part than the poker part.

My only advice is never surrender your penis. If she owns it, she'll own everything else. It sounds as if you might already be in negotitiations for a Neville Chamberlain peace accord. Man up, or lose it. No other way to put it.

CJ

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

You're an idiot for lying to her for so long. The best thing to do, as others have already said, is to be open about it. Starting the conversation with "Honey, I've been misleading you for years about how much I gamble with, but you should know before we move in" is problematic, but it would be completely unnecessary if you hadn't lied for so long anyway. And if you wait until the stakes are higher (you've moved in together, you're engaged, etc) it's only a recipe for a bigger disaster.

Good luck, dummy.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

I have a pretty good deal of experience in this department and it sounds like a similar situation to where I was a few years ago. I think some people underestimate how hard it is to convince people that what we do isn't the same type of gambling as the gambling that was done by their uncle Charlie who lost the family retirement at some sleezy casino in Reno one week. I think those saying that is a measure of you girl's intelligence are dead wrong. That has nothing to do with it. As far as what you want to tell her, it really does depend on what your goals are in life and with her.

If you are going to keep a full time job and only play poker on the side as a hobby for extra income and entertainment then I don't really think it matters if you tell her about the daily swings as long as you are a winning player. If you have a seperate roll and this money has nothing to do with her or the monthly expenses then it will be fine. For a while I just cut my win/loss by one zero and reported that number and it worked just fine. In fact, I still don't see any need to report the huge losses. It accomplishes very little. In fact, I think it is better to train them not to even ask when you come home from a session. It actually works out well. Sometimes I don't even know myself which is awesome and akin to playing online with a tilt blocker. I just think it is unhealthy and unwise to update the sig other on a a daily basis. They aren't trained the way we are to handle the emotional swings associated with daily variance. I still only update my wife on a monthly basis. This is basically inevitable since I have to have some justification for ramping down my hours at the regular job and buying all kinds of stuff with winnings will really be the only possible way that I can keep playing a lot.

However, there are many caveats. How you spend your time after a 9-5 day will become a big issue. If you head to the casino 4 nights a week this is going to start wearing her down, especially if there are kids. Therefore, if you plan to play a lot of poker, or use it as a primary source of income, you will need to tell her why you are going there so often and share your results. For a while I was only playing on my own time and it gets pretty easy for them to lock you down if you are just playing for fun. This is even more true after kids arrive. If you can show that the income has a positive impact on your life then the pain or annoyance of you being gone will start to melt away and if you are really lucky you may get encouraged to go play. This is seemingly pretty rare even with my friends who are full time pros.

My advice is to take this slow. You are mostly hearing advice from the younger crowd who are pushing the "come clean" line. Now, don't get me wrong. I am not advocating lying to her directly. I just think that drawing a line in the sand before she is ready is a good way to wreck a relationship. In general, most of us have a good deal of issues. The women are certainly no different. Just give it some time to develop and understand that it will come with patience. Good luck.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you.

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It works both ways. If she gives pope an ultimatum then it shows that her petty prejudices are more important to her than he is, and it wasn't going to work anyway.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you.

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It works both ways. If she gives pope an ultimatum then it shows that her petty prejudices are more important to her than he is, and it wasn't going to work anyway.

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This isn't really how things work man. Sometimes people are confused and need time to sort it out. We all have flaws and any lasting relationship with have to overcome challenges and both will need to compromise.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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if she gives you an ultimatum you have a decision to make. if she's someone you plan on making your wife, examine your priorities. if your own needs/wants are more important to your fulfillment than she is, then it eventually wasn't going to work anyway. plus, she might surprise you.

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It works both ways. If she gives pope an ultimatum then it shows that her petty prejudices are more important to her than he is, and it wasn't going to work anyway.

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i agree. however, i don't know her, but from what pope has stated he said that he didn't know how he would handle an ultimatum. after all, he is the one that has been deceitful. so i would think that's probably a bigger part of the equation than her prejudices on a particular subject. and just because someone is ignorant doesn't mean they are petty. they are just misinformed/uninformed. hopefully pope can speak with her in a diplomatic manner and help her see the light. if not, as you(and i) said it wasn't going to work very long anyway.

the key is: talk to her about it before you go any further in the relationship. if it doesn't work out, don't do it again in the future. learn from the mistake and grow as a person. that's all anyone can do or ask for in these types of unfortunate situations.

keep in mind, if this thing's going to work there's a decent chance she'll surprise you with understanding. if she doesn't understand/accept it then it's likely a matter of time anyway...

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

you tell her yourself (directly) about what it is that you do and how you play, also why you play as well as the benefits you receive from playing. Show her this the person you are, and explain to her by explaining how different she is by participating in her own activites that she likes to involve herself into. She will either understand what you do if you can show how you are playing your game to best win over a long haul. If she cannot see that, there is not much that you two can do to be happy and share the same future together without a fight by the issue coming between the two of you

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

As someone who recentley got married, come clean wirh her. Give the benifit of the doubt that she can understand that your are a winning player. Have her read books or look at this site to understand that you are a winning player and that poker is beatable. as lomg as your poker money is seperate from your other monies she should understand.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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She doesn't approve of 'gambling' and while she knows I am a winning player, doesn't like that it adds nothing to society.

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It's probably more important that you not associate with people for whom you need to plan strategies to justify your existence. Four years is a long time but you have a lot more to go.


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It's definately a bad idea to consider marrying someone who doesn't "approve" of what you do. I think it's very arrogant when one person thinks that how another person makes a living needs to meet their own personal moral standards. Tell her you'll start contributing to society when society makes your car payment, pays your rent, electric bill, cable bill, health insurance bill, and buys you food, clothes, flatsrceen TVs, and kitchen gadgets.

Don't entangle yourself with people who hold wildly different values than you do. It won't end well.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

surfdoc is wise.

Anyway, I still don't understand why she doesn't like gambling. It doesn't make sense when she says it "cheapens her work" when you win, and then when you lose it's not good either. It sounds like she doesn't understand variance, which as we all know does take some time to understand in a poker sense.

As for contributing to society, most people who make a$$loads of money are not contributing to society as much as they should. They're charging way too much for whatever service/product they are providing.

Doctors provide a great service to society. But you know what? They also charge a crapload of money for this service. Most of them wouldn't be in the profession if it paid the same as a teacher (who also provide a valuable service to society).

Smart people don't take low-paying jobs.

Maybe you need to ditch Gretchen Mol for Famke.

Just kidding, good luck with the girlfriend. It will not be easy or fun, but I'm sure you can get her to eventually understand poker. My wife was extremely against me playing early on, but over time I have showed her I was a winning player in the long run, and that ended up being the strongest argument I could make. She was more in the "I'm afraid you're going to get addicted and lose all of our money" camp than anything about being productive to society.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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It's definately a bad idea to consider marrying someone who doesn't "approve" of what you do. I think it's very arrogant when one person thinks that how another person makes a living needs to meet their own personal moral standards.

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wtf is wrong with you? There's nothing in the post indicating that she's arrogant or nasty or judgmental about it all. Shes not some random person that ran up to him and said "You're going to hell for playing poker." She's his girlfriend who is about to move in with him, and she said that she doesn't like that it adds nothing to society. People certainly have a right to choose their partners based on whether their values and interests line up.

You're the one that ignorantly jumped into a situation and condemned someone based solely on your own dumb assumptions.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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It's definately a bad idea to consider marrying someone who doesn't "approve" of what you do. I think it's very arrogant when one person thinks that how another person makes a living needs to meet their own personal moral standards.

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wtf is wrong with you? There's nothing in the post indicating that she's arrogant or nasty or judgmental about it all. Shes not some random person that ran up to him and said "You're going to hell for playing poker." She's his girlfriend who is about to move in with him, and she said that she doesn't like that it adds nothing to society. People certainly have a right to choose their partners based on whether their values and interests line up.

You're the one that ignorantly jumped into a situation and condemned someone based solely on your own dumb assumptions.

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Thanks for 'sticking up for me' on that argument, but you were pretty judgemental in an earlier post. You are claiming that I am lying to her for 2 years +. While I don't give a dollar amount, she knows I won a 14k+ tourney online among other things, and stating a $200 win or loss for a session isn't a huge stretch for 8/16, which I was playing up until June 1st. June 1st I started 20/40 full time, and she went to Argentina for the semester August 15th, and gets back December 15th, so I haven't really been lying, just not announcing my session to session results, since I talk to her once a day.

My original plan was to wait until after New Years to tell her, but based on everyones advice, I think I may tell her during the week of the 17th, probably 17-19th so it doesn't get exposed to her by someone saying "Pope won $3000+ last night or Pope lost $3000+ last night" which would obviously make matters 10x worse...

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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You are claiming that I am lying to her for 2 years +. While I don't give a dollar amount, she knows I won a 14k+ tourney online among other things, and stating a $200 win or loss for a session isn't a huge stretch for 8/16, which I was playing up until June 1st. June 1st I started 20/40 full time, and she went to Argentina for the semester August 15th, and gets back December 15th, so I haven't really been lying, just not announcing my session to session results, since I talk to her once a day.


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Look, I've been down the road of "I'm not really lying, I'm just exaggerating (or understating)" many times. Same with the "I'll start being completely honest when circumstances are right" road. You know where they lead? To bigger exaggerations, and, eventually, blatant lies. Plus then when you do come clean you have to explain why you didn't trust the other person enough to just be honest from the beginning.

Whether you consider it lying isn't really the issue. She's going to feel lied to, and based on what you've told us she's justified in that feeling. Would you want your partner to systematically mislead you about something in her everyday life because she thinks you wouldn't understand?

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

You bet she's going to feel lied to. Sadly, Pope wouldn't have had to lie to her if she understood or even was indifferent to his playing. It's going to come down to whether she can accept what he does, or he stops doing what he does. Not a good situation for either, I'm afraid.

It's not the money. It's the poker.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

just one thing to add to the other posts.
some women can be very funny about financial issues, and she may not want to bring it up as you are in a sensitive (pre-proposal) stage.
If you haven't already, it might help to (prior to taking with her) set up a specific separate bank account for your poker wins/losses. I did this and it helped make it clear to my wife that i have no intentions of using family funds, and her anxiety wilted.
oh one other thing that can help; i bought my wife diamond eaarrings with about 2k from my winnings... a gift she would be upset by if it was our family money...it really helped her see that im not just wasting my time!

good luck!!

Brian

Easy fix, this is how I handle it...
 

I keep my poker money separately. I keep an envelope of the hundos I won stashed in my desk.

NEVER USE THESE BENJAMINS FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MID LIMIT PLAY. DO NOT USE THIS MONEY FOR NO LIMIT. DO NOT PASS GO. GO DIRECTLY TO ENVELOPE WITH THIS CASH UPON YOUR RETURN FROM CASINO AND RETURN THE PROCEEDS, COMPLETELY IN TACT, DIRECTLY TO THE ENVELOPE. WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THE CASINO THE NEXT TIME, TAKE YOUR REQUIRED ALLOTMENT FROM ENVELOPE, AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS OVER AND OVER, AD INFINITUM. SHOW ENVELOPE TO GIRLFRIEND UPON REQUEST OR NAGGING. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT FORGET TO USE EXCESS FUNDS ON VALENTINES DAY, BY CELEBRATING WITH JEWELRY, A GIFT OF A VACATION, AND REALLY GREAT DINNER DATE AND SHOW.

Remember, this method works well only if you are in fact, a winning player as you have stated.

Re: Easy fix, this is how I handle it...
 

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I keep my poker money separately. I keep an envelope of the hundos I won stashed in my desk.

NEVER USE THESE BENJAMINS FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MID LIMIT PLAY. DO NOT USE THIS MONEY FOR NO LIMIT. DO NOT PASS GO. GO DIRECTLY TO ENVELOPE WITH THIS CASH UPON YOUR RETURN FROM CASINO AND RETURN THE PROCEEDS, COMPLETELY IN TACT, DIRECTLY TO THE ENVELOPE. WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THE CASINO THE NEXT TIME, TAKE YOUR REQUIRED ALLOTMENT FROM ENVELOPE, AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS OVER AND OVER, AD INFINITUM. SHOW ENVELOPE TO GIRLFRIEND UPON REQUEST OR NAGGING. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT FORGET TO USE EXCESS FUNDS ON VALENTINES DAY, BY CELEBRATING WITH JEWELRY, A GIFT OF A VACATION, AND REALLY GREAT DINNER DATE AND SHOW.

Remember, this method works well only if you are in fact, a winning player as you have stated.

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So Al, you're advocating using the money earned for your girl and girl alone? This doesn't make too much sense.

Pope, I asked my girl about your situation and what as a girl she likes to hear;

She likes to hear that I'm saving my money, that I'm investing it. She likes to see me quit when I'm down and listen to her during the tough times. She likes it when I treat her well after disapearing for a few days.

She said she's glad that I talk to her because she gets to share in the good days and she's supportive during the bad days.

Again, best of luck.

Re: Easy fix, this is how I handle it...
 

No JK, I use the money for all my poker related expenses, such as food, gas, and lodging (actually, I used my first envelope of money for the down payment on my boardwalk condo).

I advocated using the money for the OP's girl so he can blow off the heat he gets from her. Anyway, my point is like that discussion that we had a few months ago about never going broke and the advantages of playing limit vs no-limit. I keep a bankroll exclusively devoted to poker. I actually over expended my bankroll to purchase my condo, so I had to drop down to 10/20 to get back up to the required bankroll for 20/40 again. I plan to be returning to 20/40 sometime over the winter. Anyway, at whatever level, the excess cash generated by limit poker really adds up.

For further reading, I recommend "Gambling Theory and Other Topics" by Mason Malmuth. This work really helped me understand variance (winning and losing streaks) and bankroll requirements to stay afloat in the world of mid limit stakes.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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if she asks how I did, I always say something about losing $100 or $200 or winning $100 or $200.

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My advice is never to lie to someone whom you intend to marry and to continue this policy into marriage.

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She doesn't approve of 'gambling'

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This is more of a strength than a weakness. We who do this seriously shouldn't feel that the rest of the world must immediately grasp notions of +EV and figure out that we do this for profit. Those who hold the view that gambling = losing are generally right well more than 90% of the time.

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I would like to come clean with how much I can win/lose in a given night. I have all my sessions tracked in Excel for the past 3 years, and have shown a profit every year. I do have some large losses of like $4000+ and wins of the same magnitude that might scare her.

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The Excel list would be Exhibit A and a great way to break the ice. It may even spark in her some degree of interest in what you do. You may offer to let her read one of the thirty books you have on your shelf. Those books are Exhibit B in building your case as to why your interest in poker is different than a tourist's interest in craps.

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So I know I need to be honest with her, because her finding out from one of my friends who know my activity would be 10x worse (would probably occur on a night of drinking, which would make the fight even worse).

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...hence the simple elegance of the "never lie" policy.

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So whats the best way to go about this. I don't want to do it until after xmas and us getting used to living together. But that means I will need to hide my money even better then I do now.

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See the Excel and books commentary and do not hide your money. Her seeing that you have a lot of unexplained cash about will help your case.

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Is coming straight out and explaining it to her that it is a great outlet for my competitive nature, I enjoy it as a hobby, and I make a nice side income from it as well.

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This is a perfect start.


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Buying her stuff with poker winnings wouldn't convince her of it, since she isn't the material/gold digging type.

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Which would make her a natural type to be very suspicious and wary of gambling and gamblers. Again, this is more likely to reflect strength of character and common sense than it is to be a sign of close mindedness.

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So any advice/experiences would be welcomed while I prep myself for the 'talk'. Another wrinkle in it is that I hate working 9 to 5, and she loves her line of work, so I could see eventually me being a stay at home dad who plays poker 20-30 hours a week to make an income as well.

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I know a guy who has done this. It is certainly a viable path as poker income can be a great part time job. Bear in mind however that a large portion of the outside world still views poker player as either a) seedy and/or borderline criminal or b) a made up job like "Chief Ice Cream Taster". Also consider that if you're a parent staying home to take care of your kids, that in itself will be a very demanding full time job. Yes, its viable to fit some poker into the nooks and crannies of a day but adding 20-30 hours on top of what already figures to be a pretty full day is more of a challenge than it may seem at first. There are a whole host of other issues to explore with this and it could be an essay in itself, so suffice it say that it is viable but with drawbacks.

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I don't know if it would be a deal breaker if she puts her foot down and says I can't play that much, but it just might be...I enjoy it that much.

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This is a highly personal and private decision and goes to the heart of who you are as a person. There are those who view their marriage and/or family as the most important thing in their life and make sacrifices to maintain domestic tranquility.

There are also those who view marriage/family as one segment of their lives and are willing to weigh the pros and cons of all their decisions in a relative way. If a better job comes up but its necessitates a move which is opposed by a spouse, a career driven person will put a priority on career. If someone professionally successful decides they've outgrown their current marriage and happens to stumble upon a very attractive, younger alternative to their current spouse they may elect to serve their own needs and happiness with an upgrade. Without assigning moral judgments to the above, people make these choices every day and it goes to who they are as a person. No one can help you make those choices.

Schoonmaker has written a lot about poker and its high degree of suitableness as a hobby or a part time job. It might be worth it to search out some of his older writings. Also, take a good look around the card room the next time you're there. Take a good look at the 40+ year old regular, winning players without wedding rings and judge for yourself whether you think it would be a good call to set aside a serious relationship for the opportunity to be in their shoes twenty years from now. While doing that also picture your current circle of friends and envision their lives twenty years out. Will you be content as a single man spending his waking hours predating on degenerates while everyone you've known has gone on to raise families, buy homes and mature while you've given over your life to poker? Perhaps most importantly, consider whether finding a potential wife who has a natural suspicion and aversion to gambling is a good sign of character or a flaw?

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

jfk--

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better...

Nice post, dude.

--Nate

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

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Is coming straight out and explaining it to her that it is a great outlet for my competitive nature, I enjoy it as a hobby, and I make a nice side income from it as well.


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I think you should seat down with her before X-mas and tell her that since you have been winning all these years and had more free time b/c she was away, you decided to try to play at higher stakes WITH THE MONEY YOU SET ASIDE FROM YOUR WINNINGS. And lo and behold, you are still winning, only more and that set you thinking that it may make a nice side income, and look for her reaction.

If its negative, explain to her that you would never risk the money you made at a "real" job and poker money will always be separate. Take her to a classy casino as JK recomends. Tell her that that's a part of what you are and you come as a package; she can't only pick the parts that she likes and discard the rest. If she understands math explain the difference between "gambling" and "playing" (my mother was able to).

As for "not adding to the society" that is not entirely true. Poker provides a great outlet for people seeking some thrills, entertainment ot just looking to wind up after a hard days's work. Its not much diffrent in that reaspect than a baseball game or a Broadway show.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Also, don't marry her. Marriage is bad.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

At no point in your post did you say anything that would indicate she may possibly have a major problem with the amount of money you are moving around when you play. Just.. she doesn't really approve of gambling. So what, neither do I, I think gambling for the sake of gambling is stupid and boring.

You have a full time job, you play poker on the side, just don't make a big deal out of it and it won't seem like a big deal to her. The worst thing you can do is take her out to dinner and sit her down and say I have something to tell you and all of that. It's not a big deal, right? So why make it seem like it is? She was fine with you playing 8/16, then went away and in the meantime you moved up to double the limit so now double the amount of money gets shifted around. So what?

The real issue you should be talk about is the idea that you might like to play poker full time later on. Because it would suck if you got in a serious thing and then that was the deal breaker. That's the thing you have to discuss, and if you want to discuss playing full time making a huge deal about winning or losing a thousand dollars is probably a great way to screw the discussion you should be having.

Just have the "so like what do you want to do with your life?" discussion. And when it's your turn, talk about playing poker, talk about whatever other options you may pursue. And then go from there. Don't be a retard and scare her for no reason plz.

Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker
 

Keep a second girlfriend who understands gambling. Trust me...you'll be much happier.