Two Plus Two Newer Archives

Two Plus Two Newer Archives (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/index.php)
-   STT Strategy (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   LC: Pooh-bah post (long) (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=552981)

vers 11-23-2007 04:09 PM

LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Hey 2+2, just wanted to share with your my poker background and also some useful tips for less experienced STTers. The advice I'm going to offer in this thread probably isn't valuable to anyone playing higher buyins, but it should be good for newer players. These tips have really helped my game improve over the last year.

I started playing poker about 5 years ago in friendly ultra low stakes NL games ($20 buyins). I got into limit playing 3-6 with a group of really talented individuals who normally played 20/40 and were winning players at it. Sufficed to say that I got crushed some of the time, but in general broke even or so and I learned a lot. Over the years, I've played a bunch of limit omaha hi (my fav cash game), especially on pacific about 2 years ago playing 5/10 or 10/20. Unfortunately the game is pretty much dead. Around this same time, I started playing higher buyin sngs ($60s on party). I knew pretty much nothing about sngs and while I don't have my results from the time period, I was definitely not a winning player (I rarely got 1st I know that) and at best I was a break-even player. I was way over my head and practiced pretty poor bankroll management. I would run up $200 deposits into 1k-2k playing 3-6 limit and then jump into higher games and get destroyed. The whole process was pretty disheartened and I began to learn the value of bankroll management.

My second beginning in sngs happened last December after depositing on stars with the intention of playing Rolf Soltblom's (sp?) min buy in strategy for PLO. I got pretty crushed and was left with about $80 in my account. After playing $10 regs for a bit, I was left with even less my account and decided to switch to turbos. I did not have any knowledge of ICM or have any idea about starting hands or just general sng strategy in general (other than get more aggro in position/when it's SH which I knew from limit holdem). At about this time, I started talking to scotty12 about sngs on a very basic level. I got some recommendations from him about starting hands, push/folding scenarios, etc. I came back to play 6.50s and 16s on stars and did decently. Since then I've been on party, FTP and now back to stars. I don't put in that much volume, but in the last year I've made around 8k. I was a winning player throughout that whole period since I changed to turbos and started discussing sng strat with Scott. Anyways now I feel that my game is pretty solid (I realize there are areas where I need to improve my game, but I am now playing with tons of confidence, I am insanely nitty about bankroll management and am overrolled for the games I'm playing). I am 12 tabling now and have been for a while.

Anyways, here are some general tips that have really helped transform my game and make me a better and more confident player.

-make videos and put them up for review on 2+2
-coach someone/teach someone how to play
-review several HHs as often as possible, even if you don't think you have leaks
-PM ppl and ask to exchange HHs (this has helped me soo much).
-Get to know ppl at your level and add them to aim/msn/whatever. Having a bunch of ppl in similar situation able to discuss hands at length is really valuable.
-Be willing to take breaks when your game feels like it's going nowhere/when you've ran badly a lot recently, it might not just be variance
-software is so critical
-get coached
p-ost a lot of hands and read a lot of 2+2 (give advice on lower buyin threads and read higher buyin ones as long as the ideas discussed don't confuse you and make your game worse)
-make prop bets, or try to win bonuses given from poker sites to motivate you to play
-have other hobbies other than poker to keep you sane (I can count cards and have a blackjack team that has been very profitable. I also snowboard, shoot pool and love reading philosophical works and books about drug culture)
-table select if possible and where relevant (you don't need to table select at micro limits obv or if regs are just marginal)
-make an effort to accurately figure out villain's push/call ranges and adjust accordingly.
-play other poker games when you get bored or want to tilt off a bit of money (micro limits).
-move down when your confidence takes a hit, esp during a downswing, the losses will hurt less and you should perform better.
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.
-Learn the nuances of ICM and practice with it continually. Play around with it a lot.
-learn about and practice good bankroll management. If you're not confident in the games you're playing, you're probably playing way too high. Shot taking is ok if you can live with a loss. Rebuilding from scratch is a horrible experience and should be avoided.
-multitabling really helps me avoid tilting b/c I do not sweat every result very much at all.

I know this is a super long post. Usually I can't articulate myself very briefly and I don't want to miss out on anything. In general, I am very grateful to 2+2. It is an amazing resource and was really my jumping off point to becoming a better player. I read almost every post and make an effort to post my opinions when it hasn't already been said. As Scotty said, don't quote ppl or write 1 word responses b/c your opinion might not be clear to newer players. Thanks to all that have posted on my hands and watched and critiqued my videos. Thanks most of all to Scott though who really got me into sngs and is always there to listen to me bitch about downswings and variance. It's sometimes a tough game to deal with and having someone to exchange ideas with and vent to is really critical. Also thanks to Sence. I really have a great time discussing hands with you and enjoy talking to you daily. Having really good friends that you can talk about all aspects of the game (as well as other things) is crucial and I can't thank you guys (and 2+2 in general) enough.

I just wanted to get my thoughts out and give back to the community.

sence25 11-23-2007 04:18 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Good stuff pal, keep on rolling.

saddu 11-23-2007 04:21 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
nice post vers! can u tell me what do you do when coach? see the players hand history and give advice? thx

slimon 11-23-2007 04:25 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Good advice! Your lucky to have a person like Scott to help you out. Seems like a nice dude.

flopton 11-23-2007 04:29 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Vers: the omnipresent poster. You've given me some solid advice in msn conversations about how to manage my playing and not just (but also) how to play specific situations. I like the fact you're constantly putting your opinions on the forum and discussing your reasons. I just don't understand how you manage to get anything else done while posting 100 replies a day! Great post.

ADLinden 11-23-2007 04:33 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
good post, good advice. gl in the future

burns-1986 11-23-2007 04:48 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Nice post, your always the first person to respond to my crappy threads so im grateful, keep up the good work
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

RexWoo 11-23-2007 04:56 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
tl;dr;

jking nice post, always enjoy having you in a thread

sippin_criss 11-23-2007 05:26 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
LEAKBOX!!!

but seriously, nice post, lots of helpful advice. you are def a good addition to this forum.

CheeseMoney 11-23-2007 05:27 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
nh

AMT 11-23-2007 05:45 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
congrats vers,

From what ive seen on the forum, you have leaks as any low buy in snger has, but your thirst to learn and willingness to improve shows that you should be able to get where you want to go with this game. I think its important to mention that, with your advice, if someone chooses to teach someone else how to play, that they should really take their own talents into consideration when shaping a plan and approach . It saddens me to see so many new SNGers look to coach new players, and just continue to pass on existing leaks or ignore other players' leaks for lack of knowledge. anyways, some good advice in there, good luck, and congrats.

K䲰䮥n 11-23-2007 05:45 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
nice post. this will help im sure.

[ QUOTE ]

-move down when your confidence takes a hit, esp during a downswing, the losses will hurt less and you should perform better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with moving down if confidece takes a hit but... there is no "during downswing". Swings have no ends while your playing. Obv you can say that "I had a downswing that lasted 1k hands" but you cannot know it when you play. You cant just "move down to play through the downswing and cut the losses". But you can move down "to get your confidence back". FWIW realizing this helped my game. While playing you dont know how you run - you just run.

More on this subjent on wikipedia

Fiasco 11-23-2007 06:03 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
which software would you say is critical? Right now Im just running PT and PAHUD, do I really need others?

vers 11-23-2007 08:35 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Karp, I should have said move down after a downswing or after you have ran badly. I realize there's no in a downswing when you play. It definitely helps after a downswing to know that your next session is not predetermined, you just run as you said. Thanks for the clarification, what you said is what I meant.

Fiasco, I use sngpt (you can get free icm calculators as I've seen, but I've never used one), I also think Tourney Manager is really helpful b/c of all the filters you can implement, especially the stats depending on hour of the day and stats by # of tables. When I was playing on FTP, I bought idleminer and ran it like mad. It's really helpful for all of the sng to have stats (reliable ones over large samples) even though you may not have played with the villains before. It really helps for future game selection too. Autohotkeys on stars and fulltiltshortcuts for FTP make multitabling a lot easier and reduce the chance of timing out (which can be a problem if you're not a super fast player).

Thanks to everyone else for the kind words, comments and considerations (esp AMT). I have only coached 3 ppl so far formerly and I think I am going about it in a pretty good fashion. I realize some of the weakpoints in my game, and I think I'm pretty good at realizing close ICM spots, so I make sure to run those. I try to not make sure not to pass on my leaks/weak points in my game (I know this is tough/impossible if you don't know your leaks), but if there's a really close spot, I won't pretend like I know what is best.

mattiesmat 11-23-2007 08:37 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Nice post vers, keep on the good work (and keep posting in my topics [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]).

checkmate36 11-23-2007 08:42 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
good post, good advice. gl in the future

[/ QUOTE ]

Scotty_12 11-23-2007 10:31 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

Nice post man. BTW, the instantaneous rate at which you post > the instantaneous rate at which I post.

Kevin8423 11-23-2007 11:09 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you gotta change it a ton like me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

mattiesmat 11-24-2007 07:08 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be obvious, but why not?

donkraft 11-24-2007 07:22 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Nice post, and thanks for comments in my threads. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

K䲰䮥n 11-24-2007 08:10 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be obvious, but why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes figuring out ranges easier for other 2p2ers.

mattiesmat 11-24-2007 08:36 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be obvious, but why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes figuring out ranges easier for other 2p2ers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes, but I rather have people 'fearing' and dodging my games in the first place.

Tantalus747 11-24-2007 09:31 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be obvious, but why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes figuring out ranges easier for other 2p2ers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't late stage play solved enough that good players playing optimally will not have huge variances in ranges?

I'm not saying there's no difference, just that the differences would be in the small 1/10ths of percentage points. I'm sure this could be crucial at the $100+ lvls, but it seems likes ranges around the 16s are pretty standard for the 2+2 players.

K䲰䮥n 11-24-2007 09:58 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-Don't make your 2+2 name the same as every SN you have on every major poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be obvious, but why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes figuring out ranges easier for other 2p2ers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't late stage play solved enough that good players playing optimally will not have huge variances in ranges?

I'm not saying there's no difference, just that the differences would be in the small 1/10ths of percentage points. I'm sure this could be crucial at the $100+ lvls, but it seems likes ranges around the 16s are pretty standard for the 2+2 players.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. If villain does not have reads/stats on you why give him a free edge?

vers 11-24-2007 12:36 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
My point as it has already been stated is just that 2+2ers will already have rough reads on you, so your aggro play will not go undetected for too long. I'm not sure to what extent ppl will fear you or avoid joining your games. 2+2ers will know what an EP limp in lvl1 means, they'll know how wide you're shoving bvb, etc.

ger664 11-24-2007 01:55 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Congrats on Pooh-Bah sir.

crystalallen 11-24-2007 03:42 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Excellent.

Do you have any videos that I can watch? Or can you tell me where I can find some? (non-turbo especially)

vers 11-24-2007 03:49 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
I made a couple videos about 2 months ago but don't have the links on the computer. I will post the links later tonight, but they are all turbos. My game has improved significantly since then, so they're no longer an accurate representation of my play. There is still some good commentary and basic stuff though that newer players can learn from.

crystalallen 11-24-2007 04:02 PM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I made a couple videos about 2 months ago but don't have the links on the computer. I will post the links later tonight, but they are all turbos. My game has improved significantly since then, so they're no longer an accurate representation of my play. There is still some good commentary and basic stuff though that newer players can learn from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I'll look for them.

vers 11-25-2007 12:20 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Here's the links to the videos I made a few months ago.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQC95VI7

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0Z56KDPR

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E9IHWYO9

They're not an accurate portrayal of my abilities now, so I don't need more criticism [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

crystalallen 11-25-2007 12:28 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the links to the videos I made a few months ago.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NQC95VI7

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0Z56KDPR

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E9IHWYO9

They're not an accurate portrayal of my abilities now, so I don't need more criticism [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks!

thunderb4ll 11-25-2007 02:17 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
Vers, can we expect any more videos any time soon?

vers 11-25-2007 03:09 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
I have a ton of uni work to do for the next 2 weeks, but I'll try to make one in the near future.

thunderb4ll 11-25-2007 04:15 AM

Re: LC: Pooh-bah post (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a ton of uni work to do for the next 2 weeks, but I'll try to make one in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]Awesome! They are much appreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.