Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

I really hate how i played this hand. Line check please-

Party Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $100
Hero (CO): $110.50
BTN: $153.61
SB: $46.50
BB: $79.80
UTG: $135.12

MP posts $1
Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $1, MP checks, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, 4 folds, MP calls $5

Flop: ($14.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $10</font>, MP calls $10

Turn: ($34.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">MP bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4

River: ($42.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">MP bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

Raise the turn to 30ish and shut down (obv) to any further action. Villain obviously has a hand he doesn't want to play a big pot with, probably Ax.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

Villains hand range is too undefined, since we have no reads. He either has something like a weak A, J9/79, some kind of 8, a pp &lt; T, or he is one of those crazy [censored] who bets his strong hands weak because poker is about deception lol, and has AT. Most of his range is beating you by accident, and without any reads I am hesitant to try to push him off a weak made hand.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

Claunchy, do you think he folds Ax to a turn raise?

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

i check that flop a lot of the time. given that you did bet flop, either (1) raise turn or (2) call and fold river. i dont think your 99 is good anywhere near 25% of the time.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

cs3,

given how the board came down - if we checked behind on the flop, villain leads turn, we call; river comes a Q villain bets again, you fold?

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

obv read-dependent, but my default would be to call one street, or b/f if checked to again.

in your example (villain donks turn and donks Q-high river i would fold river to almost everyone)

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

in reality i folded river, but i really didn't like it.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

i think checking back the flop is good.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Claunchy, do you think he folds Ax to a turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
I edited that Ax part in, and I wish I hadn't because there are obviously other hands that play this way (J9, some dumb spades, whatever).

But I definitely still like raising here a lot better than calling since he's rarely strong here and our SD value is pretty bad.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

Pretty sure calling is your worst option...it a clear raise or fold situation...as for raising; do you have reason to think you can push him off a weak ace? if not then it's a river fold

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

I think this is one of those spots where checking behind is pretty good on the flop. When we're ahead on the flop, we might get a call by a lower pair but I think they often check behind. If we're behind on the flop, I doubt we get a T to fold...but maybe. If we're ahead on the flop, I often think the villain is drawing pretty thin most often to 2-4 outs. What do you guys think?

I guess betting the flop is pretty standard and shutting down after that, but I'm curious what people think about checking.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

I check this flop quite a bit, but I also bet it if I just sat down or think villain perceives me as tight or whatever. Either way, the flop is definitely not where this hand was screwed up.

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is one of those spots where checking behind is pretty good on the flop....
....If we're behind on the flop, I doubt we get a T to fold...but maybe. If we're ahead on the flop, I often think the villain is drawing pretty thin most often to 2-4 outs. What do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree, for those exact resaons. we shouldnt be auto-cbetting every single flop

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

If this flop was more disconnected, like an A72r flop, then I would like a check, because I would be checking AK/AQ there as well, and the times when I check a strong A can protect the times when I check a pair of 9's. But on a drawy board like this, I think you have to cbet

Re: Please rip me a new one, line check vs unknown.....
 

For those saying check the flop-

I check villain leads turn - is calling your default? or are you looking to raise? how big an impact does the turn card have on your decision?

Also, if i was OOP its a clear cbet?