Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

OK, no real reads on my opponents yet. I am thinking my play here is standard this early in a sng. Just wanted some insight. Would calling here be -EV over time or should I loosen up a little at these levels.

I was certain one of these two donks had QQ+


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament/2.25
Blinds: t25/t50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1385
UTG+1: t880
MP1: t1575
MP2: t1705
MP3: t2320
CO: t1500
Button: t960
Hero: t1555
BB: t1620

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls t50 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t75)</font>, 3 folds, MP3 calls t50 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t125)</font>, CO calls t50 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t175)</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t225</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to t650</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in t1500</font>, Hero folds, BB calls t850 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t2400)</font>.

I was a bit confused by c/o limping and then to push over the top facing a raise and reraise.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t3325, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: t3325)


Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t3325, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: t3325)


River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t3325, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: t3325)


Results:
Final pot: t3325

Turns out I would have won here, but I wonder if this same scenario was played out 10 times if it would prove profitable, I don't think so, but lets get the communties view here.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

Don't raise to begin with.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise to begin with.

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Can you help me understand? B/c OOP?

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

Yeah, OOP and never picking it down before the flop.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

Action is very scary. It looks like a fold, but I'm not sure in a $2.25.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think the raise is fine. but 225 is way too big. 130-150 is a decent raise, and id fold to the action

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

FWIW, I would have done exactly what you did... only possible difference is a slightly smaller raise, but likely would have tried to make it as pricey as you did.

BTW, WTH did they have there? KQ and AJ or something crazy like that? I would have expected the limp/push in the CO to have about 66-TT if you hadn't said you would have won the pot.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

Why the lower raise? It seems to me you are giving good odds to everyone to call, which means you don't eliminate any players. I would think that being out of position, you would either call or make a large raise (300-ish) to win the pot right there. My personal thinking is that the call is more appropriate in this case, since your hand is likely to be best but isn't dominant.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

I like a complete here the first time around. If you raise, you need to make a large raise since you're out of position. As played, fold. Very rarely will you have both of them dominated here, and most likely, you'll be the one playing catch up.

But then again, I haven't played anything under $6.5's in a while, and even here, I think something I did at the 16's is screwing me over.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

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your hand is likely to be best but isn't dominant.

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No. AQ is bad news. Especially with all the raises and re-raises.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise to begin with.

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there is nothing more to say. maybe i will elaborate. never raise out of SB with AQ. i try not to do it with AK or tens. jacks are a coin flip and where the limpers came from is a large piece of that coin.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise to begin with.

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i think the raise is fine. but 225 is way too big. 130-150 is a decent raise, and id fold to the action

[/ QUOTE ]
you realize that this is building a pot to play OOP against kids who dont fold?

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

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Action is very scary. It looks like a fold, but I'm not sure in a $2.25.

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This thread is the perfect example of why you put the stakes in the title. When I got started playing the 3.5s I'd push AK and get called all day by A10+ and even just random garbage.

I remember one 3.5 where UTG pushed AI 1st hand, UTG+1 calls AI, I'm UTG+2 with KK and call. UTG flips over a-10, UTG+1 shows 5-3s.

Either just push (b/c of low stakes) or complete and c/f if you miss.

As played, it depends on your edge over this field. If you've been on 2+2 long enough you crush this level it's probably a fold.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
your hand is likely to be best but isn't dominant.

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No. AQ is bad news. Especially with all the raises and re-raises.

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Sorry - my original post was regarding the first decision, when you just had a bunch of limpers. After the two others have raised, your AQ looks like 72o to me - dump it.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I would have done exactly what you did... only possible difference is a slightly smaller raise, but likely would have tried to make it as pricey as you did.

BTW, WTH did they have there? KQ and AJ or something crazy like that?

[/ QUOTE ]


You are exactly right!

However, i was not really concerned about the outcome, since I feel if I am put in this position time and time again, I find it standard to fold to this madness early on.

I find it more interesting that the community thinks that a raise here was bad... I have a fairly tight image at tables, and usually end up showing down worthy hands.

But more importantly is the level I play at. For instance, when I play 20-30 sng's with my best friend, I find those levels much different.

I feel that at the 2dollar level, you have players like myself who are striving to be a winning player, and those who just "flip coins", a common mistake for beginners.

I have been on 2p2 some time now and I really have improved substantially. I have more than doubled my BR since late July and have not looked back.

I appreciate all your thoughts here and put in the same position, may indeed play the hand different PreFlop next time. Being a game of many situations requires constant adjustment and a lust to be a "winner".

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise to begin with.

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i think the raise is fine. but 225 is way too big. 130-150 is a decent raise, and id fold to the action

[/ QUOTE ]

One more thing on raising.... Raising typically 3.5x to 4.5 x based on position is pretty standard, but when facing several limpers in a sng, I don't want anyone getting a cheap look at the flop, so I typically raise the pot up more than my standard(in position) to flush the limpers out.

My fault may indeed have been the raise oop here, since I ended up donating 4.5 BB to the pot. But even on the button I would have folded here this early in a sng, at any level facing this kind of action.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

I just got back into playing SNG's online, (stopped when Party went away) but since I started with the 5.50's on UB, I have found that the "bet pot" button is pretty much an all purpose friend for PF raises. Usually pretty close to what I would want to bet, and a time saver for MT'ing.

I just dropped a few bucks on UB last week and am finding that the 5.50 level very easy and I should be moving up very soon. I tried a few of the 2.20's and they were rediculous. No one would fold any marginal hand and would call anything with any draw. Not the way I want to play.

I imagine though that if you know what you are doing you should be able to move up fairly quickly and get to a point where people wont 4 bet AI w an AJ.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

early on I just flat with AQ here...why go crazy OOP in a low buy in where you will get callers lining up with a junk hand? Were you trying to steal the limps or what? raises should have a purpose and this one feels off...

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

[ QUOTE ]
early on I just flat with AQ here...why go crazy OOP in a low buy in where you will get callers lining up with a junk hand? Were you trying to steal the limps or what? raises should have a purpose and this one feels off...

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You can raise because you will get callers w/ a7 who stack off on aces, and callers with QJ who stack off with Q-high boards.

LOL at everyone saying raising is awful. It may not be your style, but its not awful. People are calling with much worse, and if OP is confident postflop, raising is +EV imo.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

It's not awful, it's just clearly worse than completing.
It's not like people who can't get away from TPNK in raised pots will lay them down in limped multiway pots either.

Re: Good Fold or playing too tight?
 

I would Most certainly just call here. Raising is super bad imo. What are you trying to accomplish? Maybe in Live play this is a raise, or if you are Single-Tabling online or something and you are bored...

Why not raise?

- UTG limped, he can have everything and AK is certainly a good possibility
- Multiple players limped behind
- Your out of position
- Your hand is not super

Either push or complete the sb, raising &amp; having to play a flop OOP against possibly multiple opponents is not done.