Villain offers to show a card
 

I was in a hand about three months ago so i'm a little vague on all the details but it went something like this
1-2 NL at the taj. Hero has ~$350 villain has ~$500

hero has 8c9c

villain is UTG+3 and raises to 12, hero is in cutoff and calls, blinds fold.

flop comes 8 9 2 rainbow

villain checks, hero bets $20, villain checkraises to $70 hero calls

turn is a 5

villain bets $125, hero?

-Villain is a tight solid player but i know he's capable of making a play.
-I've played with him before and he knows i'm TAG but i was also loosening up a little bit in previous hands and making some plays

Now here is where it gets interesting. I tell him i have a real hand right now. Villain offers to show me a cards for $30, I ask him if it matters which card he shows, he says no.

I think i should have paid to see the card but i don't see how it makes my decision easier, the hand i'm afraid of is a set and he said i could pick either card. What do you think?

something happened afterwards but i want to see the response to this first.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

The only hand he could possibly bluff with here is 77 or 66, and most people aren't smart enough for that. 99% of the time when a situation like this occurs, the villain has the goods.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

He's retarded, allin. You should've shoved the flop.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

Forget paying him, poooooosh and find out. He definitely doesn't have 76, and if he has the other two 9s or 8s, so be it.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

shove the flop, he very likely have an overpair, way more often than a set.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

This is how I lose all my money at cash games.

You say to yourself I have 8,9 so he can't have pocket 8 or 9.

He C/R the flop so the 5 probably did not help.

So do I think he really has 2,2.

I'm basically pot committed if I call.

So let's SHOVE.

Then bangs he turns over the pocket 2,5,8 or 9.

Cash games just seem to work that way in a tourney I probably shove the flop and don't think twice about it (even if i lose)

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

shove flop
if he has a set so be it

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

Can't really fold top two here. Move all in and hope you're still good.

IMO the villain offering to show a card is a sign of weakness. If he was that strong, he would shut up and let you get all in against him. He could easily have an overpair, or a worse two pair. Gotta call here.

Also, consider this: suppose you buy a card for $30, and he shows an ace. You then push all in, and he folds. Result = he keeps $160 that should have been yours, and you paid him $30 to do it.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

Why is everybody commenting on the flop play?

The question is, do you pay to see the card NOW?

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
The question is, do you pay to see the card NOW?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're not going to see anything thats going to make your decision easier.

I say villain has two pair and read about the story about a guy who showed one card with two pair and convinced the guy he had a set.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

Go all-in. Offer to show one card for $60.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now here is where it gets interesting. I tell him i have a real hand right now. Villain offers to show me a cards for $30, I ask him if it matters which card he shows, he says no.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear from long-time floors/room managers about where the money can come from for these types of transactions.

Forget the sizes of hero's and villian's stacks in the original post example.

Can the money come out of a stack?

Can/Must players take money out of their pockets for this?

If the money comes out of the larger stack and goes into the smaller stack, does it now immediately become part of the table stake of the smaller stack and is thus subject to becomming part of the pot during the hand in play, thus allowing the smaller stack to win even more from the pot? Stack size (x + $30. side bet won) all in vs. larger stack = $60 more total win vs. a completely separate cash transaction of "I'll pay you $30. to see your cards."

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

So if he has pocket 8's or 9's i guess i have to pay him off? I know the chances are slim but it happens. I just had a feeling i was beat i guess and i folded. I think part of it had to do with that being all the money i had. Anyway after the hand i showed him the 89 and asked him what he had, he asked me what the board was, i told him and he said pocket 5's. After that i was pretty sure he bluffed me. Not one of my more glorifying moments i guess.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if he has pocket 8's or 9's i guess i have to pay him off? I know the chances are slim but it happens. I just had a feeling i was beat i guess and i folded. I think part of it had to do with that being all the money i had. Anyway after the hand i showed him the 89 and asked him what he had, he asked me what the board was, i told him and he said pocket 5's. After that you were 100% sure he bluffed me. Not one of my more glorifying moments i guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

Obviously folding or pushing here, depending on your read and the brief history you have with the player. Sucks to have to make the decision for all the money you have in your pocket but you know the saying. I have personally offered to show one card when I had the immortal nuts, top set or top 2 and I have also offered to show a card when I was completely empty. I have probably done it a total of 15 or 20 times and their is only one occassion that sticks out where it didn't produce the desired result and that was due to me giving a fish way too much credit for reading the situaton. I don't coffeehouse much but it happens on occassion and to me it seems like it goes on alot more in clubs than in casinos, just my opinion.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

i have to chime in. i too find myself in these spots in the 1/2 nl and i have recently tried to move up to 2/5 nl....Key thing you said was that this was "all the money you had".....its been said on this board and its quite true. you cant win with scared money. I play at Motor city but usually 10/20 limit(min-bet)..but that game has dried up and the only thing going is 1/2 nl...and the play is terrible yet, i'll flop the nut flush get it all in on the flop and lose by the river. ill play in tournements and roll right over people. but this dam nl for all the money in front of you i find myself getting pushed off hands and having the monsters under the bed syndrome...you have to play within your limits,,trust you instincts and do what Gobo said...shove that [censored] on the flop.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
Go all-in. Offer to show one card for $60.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

That would be so sweet if i did that, unless he flips over 67 then i'll kind of look like an ass, but still i wish i did that.

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
So do I think he really has 2,2.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine he has 22 if he's offering to show you a card. If he's offering to show you a card and doesn't care which card, he has 67, 66, or 77, or is fairly retarded(how could he possibly be willing to show a card that isn't part of the nuts, etc).

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're both retarded, allin. You should've shoved the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Villain offers to show a card
 

[ QUOTE ]
Go all-in. Offer to show one card for $60.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's good. You might get him to lay down 22 or 55.