Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

Villain is playing 29/21/2.8 and I'm playing TAG. He seems to 3-bet a bit, but I dunno how he plays in 3-bet pots in general. Plan was to flop a gut-shoot or better and get it in (i.e. flop K52 and I'm all-in!). That didn't happen... but it looks like he has air a decent amount of the time. What do you think about river bet? My original plan?

Everest Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00/$4.00 (HH Converter by Kreatief)

($462.60)
($214.50)
($461.20) (Hero)
SB ($486.90)
BB ($444.30)

Preflop: Hero is with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14.00</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BUTTON raises to $48.00</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $34.00,

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $102 )
Hero checks, BUTTON checks,

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $102 )
Hero checks, BUTTON checks,

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( $102 )
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $65.00</font>

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

fold pf to reraise

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

how is the SB last to act in the hand postflop?

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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how is the SB last to act in the hand postflop?

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The hand converter is a little buggy. But villain is on the button and I'm CO.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

fold PF...don't like the river bet either...size more than the actual bet but not a fan of either.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

preflop I think I prefer a small 4bet than calling to try stuff, basically you're going to be check/shoving prob about 40% of the time so the CRAI has to be quite +EV to make up for the pf call.
Also, I think he probably folds turn more than he does the riv and the K doesn't hit him much because AK/KQ bets the flop imo.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

I have seen Brian do this w/ 65s against one who he thought 3-bet to much. That's the reason I wanted to try it out.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

so you waited until you had 65s rather than position?

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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so you waited until you had 65s rather than position?

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Why do position matters? I actually like it when we are OOP, b/c he's more inclined to c-bet with his somewhat weak range.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

ur right position isn't important in poker.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

With the plan to stick it in light at the flop position against a overly aggro villain position aint that important. Just c/r it all in on decent flops. I watched Brians latest vid. to and I guess these kind of plays are ok to do once in a while, not to often though. But I guess a little more information on villan would be nice, he cbets a bunch right? If he doesesn't positon madders. And obv. it's important that he do knows how to fold, if you got a tight image it helps too. Btw, did you consider 4-betting pre?

I don't like the river bet at all, he will look you up almost always here.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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ur right position isn't important in poker.

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Haha

Maybe I was a bit unclear,

If we are in position... we are going to shove over his CB.
If we are OOP... we are going to CR over his CB.

Obviously he will check sometimes when we have position and that gives us more options, but most villain CB like always after a 3-bet and hence it isn't a big deal.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

when he has position if he is good he isn't going to be c-betting the flop every time.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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I have seen Brian do this w/ 65s against one who he thought 3-bet to much. That's the reason I wanted to try it out.

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You're not applying Brian's concept correctly. In order to excute this play optimally, you need a good post-flop read on your villain. Brian shoved on his gutshot because he had a read that the villain plays aggressively with weak hands his strong hands passively. Once you have that read, you can safely shove over his cbet after he 3bets pre because there's a decent chance he's FOS and will fold to your shove. However, if you don't know how he plays his strong and weak hands PLUS you're out of position, you need to keep it standard and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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Why do position matters? I actually like it when we are OOP, b/c he's more inclined to c-bet with his somewhat weak range.

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[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] dear god...

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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ur right position isn't important in poker.

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doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.

bet -&gt; arr in. done with hand.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

then why not just call 3bets w/ SCs OOP all the time?

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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ur right position isn't important in poker.

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doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.

bet -&gt; arr in. done with hand.

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Thank you. Exactly what I mean. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Besides I dunno why it would be wrong to check/shove over CB if you think someone is 3-betting to light, isn't that a good way to exploit that? Of course you could 4-bet as well, but with a hand like 56s I don't mind this.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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fold pf to reraise

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calling pf with this hand oop against a wide 3betting range and no reads on how he plays in 3bet pots is suicidal.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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then why not just call 3bets w/ SCs OOP all the time?

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Maybe because villain will most likely adjust?

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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then why not just call 3bets w/ SCs OOP all the time?

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because that would be stupid.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

whatever, im done here. i disagree w/ xorbie since he either didn't read the OP or something. you said you have no read on how he plays postflop in 3bet pots but he apparently agrees in that situation that position is irrelevant. i guess it is if you don't mind just blindly shoving a stack in usually drawing dead on this flop when called w/ absolutely no reads.

but that was the post you were looking for OP...the one that made how you played the hand right and all the other posts saying fold pf wrong.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

3 bet pots essentially make the stacks shallower. Shallower stacks make position matter less. Position always matters, just less so with shallower stacks.

I guess this hand demonstrates why position still matters though! (flop action) Also, villain may not think that you'd just call with AK/KQ OOP. I assume that this is what you're trying to rep on the river?

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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then why not just call 3bets w/ SCs OOP all the time?

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because that would be stupid.

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agree, so is continuing w/ 65s here OOP completely readless.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

Oh, and I fold this close to 100% preflop.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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whatever, im done here. i disagree w/ xorbie since he either didn't read the OP or something. you said you have no read on how he plays postflop in 3bet pots but he apparently agrees in that situation that position is irrelevant. i guess it is if you don't mind just blindly shoving a stack in usually drawing dead on this flop when called w/ absolutely no reads.

but that was the post you were looking for OP...the one that made how you played the hand right and all the other posts saying fold pf wrong.

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the guy is a 29/21, this is a button vs a CO. i think its safe to assume that "3bets a bunch" is a pretty good read and so its safe to assume he has air here a decent amount and its safe to assume since hes not a passive douche that hes going to be cbetting air a decent amount and since we are very very rarely getting it in drawing dead (which you would know if you read OP) and likely have a lot of FE and decent equity, there's really no problem whatsoever with the pf call every once in a while.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

What do you mean we have decent equity when called? I'm pretty sure that if we get called we are drawing to backdoor straight/flush/two pair/trips...

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

yes, if he flops something obv he has some equity but in this pot he has no equity tho maybe some FE. the problem is that if villain is good he is going to be chk'ing the flop behind w/ reasonable hands like J7s, AT, etc. if he is going to be calling OOP he should have a little better read on his postflop play IMO...obv if he is 29/21 and 3 bets a reasonable amount he will have trash here some but c/r'ing w/ no equity is crazy.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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ur right position isn't important in poker.

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doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.


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WHAT

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

LucidDream, don't get me wrong. I obviously don't do this all the time - in fact very rarely. And it's better to do this in position and with a better read (and also smaller stacks).

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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ur right position isn't important in poker.

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doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.


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WHAT

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position doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

You are getting called 100 percent. The villain is checking two streets because he wants to get to showdown not because he totally missed the board.. If you really wanna sell your bluff bet turn and possibly bet river based depending on river card imo. I dunno tho, I like to barrell alot.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

this thread makes my head hurt... just fold or 4bet preflop, zzzz.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

oh yea, and fold preflop or 4 bet, flatting oop with 56s is pretty bad.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

Looks like a spew because most players bets somewhere if they dont have anything at all. I would guess he has a T or something like 88-99 and is insta-calling now.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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ur right position isn't important in poker.

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doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.


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WHAT

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position doesnt matter THAT much in 3bet pots to be honest.

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WHAT?????????????????

maybe if everyone has a pot sized bet left but thats not usually the case

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

postion matters less in a 3bet pot than in a normal pot, im not really sure what else to say at this point.

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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Looks like a spew because most players bets somewhere if they dont have anything at all. I would guess he has a T or something like 88-99 and is insta-calling now.

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That is true and the bet on the river therefore sucked... I was pretty tilted when this hand occurred (had been 2 outed in a big pot on another table) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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postion matters less in a 3bet pot than in a normal pot, im not really sure what else to say at this point.

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thats not what you said though

not mattering as much and not mattering THAT much are not the same

Re: Bluffing in 3-bet pot
 

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postion matters less in a 3bet pot than in a normal pot, im not really sure what else to say at this point.

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thats not what you said though

not mattering as much and not mattering THAT much are not the same

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lol. ok it matters 5.74 on the xorbie scale in this particular hand.