saving money vs set
 

When he min raised me on flop - I figured I was beat - what is the best course of action to tell for sure? I don't like calling because I don't really learn anything - but maybe I'm wrong. I figured betting out and folding to a push but if he calls then I'm not sure what to do. What's a good amount to bet, assuming that's the correct line?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $61.50
BB: $4.65
Hero (UTG): $29.65
BTN: $25

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, BTN calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $2</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $4</font>, <font color="red">Hero ???</font>

Re: saving money vs set
 

I forgot to mention button was 37/19/2.5 but really hadn't gotten out of line against me previous to this - so I didn't think he was pulling a move.

Re: saving money vs set
 

On something like this, a dry flop, I sometimes spite-call the minbet and try to spike 2 pair, but really with KQ I would get out, you really only beat KJ here. With AK, I call the minraise, lead the turn, and fold if I get raised again.

Re: saving money vs set
 

This is where you 3bet or fold. I like fold with no reads. If he's aggro on the flop/button a raise is fine. If he's passive; all that much easier to turf.

Very read dependant. Without reads I'm happy to fold here.

Re: saving money vs set
 

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot to mention button was 37/19/2.5 but really hadn't gotten out of line against me previous to this - so I didn't think he was pulling a move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy raise imo then. AF of 2.5 with a VPIP of 37 means he's bluffing/semibluffing a reasonable amount of the time.

Re: saving money vs set
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is where you 3bet or fold. I like fold with no reads. If he's aggro on the flop/button a raise is fine. If he's passive; all that much easier to turf.

Very read dependant. Without reads I'm happy to fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: saving money vs set
 

depends on how often you see him doing this. some players will do this with only a big hand, others will do it with just about any piece or air once they notice you c-betting. against this type of opponent I like to call and re-evaluate on the turn.

Re: saving money vs set
 

i like call and evaluate turn, i even dont mind a turn call unless hes potting it, and a fold on river if he tripple barrels as he wont be tripple barreling with something worse imo.

Re: saving money vs set
 

What's that? Set!? Don't talk about a set! You kiddin me? A set!? (Jim Mora impression)

I think you give way too much credit. Why does it gotta be a set? Doesn't this guy re-raise with a PP PF when his PFR = 19 when it's 4-ways? Totally forgetting about the stats, there's a whole bunch of stuff he mins with.

I believe a min raise is weak, so I just raise it right back with authority. There's so many hands he could have here, you gotta raise to see where you're at. I'll spite-call the min also on more dangerous boards where the odds are great but not here. Re-raise the dumb minner.

Re: saving money vs set
 

I see what you mean but this line seems to get me into big hands. This is pretty much my favourite line with a set because people seem to feel committed to a hand with top pair / two pair after you've put some money in on the turn.

A raise based on the suspicion this player is fooling often enough ensures he doesn't get a free turn card and lets us know we're behind.

In position I'm happy to take your line.

Re: saving money vs set
 

unless you want to get it in, which is obv not the case since you think he has a set, 3betting the flop is bad. worse rarely calls, better rarely folds blah blah

Re: saving money vs set
 

[ QUOTE ]
unless you want to get it in, which is obv not the case since you think he has a set, 3betting the flop is bad. worse rarely calls, better rarely folds blah blah

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In which case, what value is there in calling and donking turn when its likely to cost the same amount and you will end up even more ignorant as to where you're at?

You can't put him on a set here. He's playing loose and reasonably aggro. I think we're reasonably close to his range as I'd expect him to raise this with any K, 2p, set, maybe straight draw.

If he calls a raise and bets the turn we can assume we're behind whereas if we donk the turn and he flat calls we're left having given him the grace of drawing two more cards and giving us a spewey decision on the river.

Not saying you're wrong but I just don't really like this line OOP against an opponent with LAG stats at uSNL.

Re: saving money vs set
 

you dont have to 3-bet or fold here, wtf. calling is an option...

Re: saving money vs set
 

I've changed my mind. 3betting and checking the turn is probably a pretty poor line. I think calling and donking a reasonable turn shows more strength and is potentially cheaper and more value.

Leaky me.

Cheers guys.

Re: saving money vs set
 

call to keep pot small.
many marginal uNLers slowplay sets. Kx or 2pr or AA is much more likley imo