What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

This is a poll about rebuy tournament structures. I'm doing some work on structuring rebuy tournaments and I figured I'd get some input from you pros.

What I'm trying to determine is what players feel is the best rebuy/add-on cost and stack size. If you would add replies with comments on what levels give the rebuy player, or the surviving players, too much of an advantage, that would be appreciated.

Thank you

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

This is a little confusing. Your first question your asking should a rebuy be worth the amount of an average stack? So if the tourny has been running for 45 minutes and the average stack is 8k, you can rebuy for 8k? Assuming that 100% was the option you select.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a little confusing. Your first question your asking should a rebuy be worth the amount of an average stack? So if the tourny has been running for 45 minutes and the average stack is 8k, you can rebuy for 8k? Assuming that 100% was the option you select.

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Yes. My assumptions are these:

a) That the average stack in the first few rounds will be close to the starting stack (not a factor of 3x). So, in your example, I'm guessing the original stack would have been around T7000- 7500. If that is incorrect, let me know.

b) That when you rebuy, you are supposed to evaluate the rebuy stack vs. the average stack that it will be facing, not necessarily the starting stack.

If either reasoning is poor, let me know and I can try putting together a corrected poll.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a little confusing. Your first question your asking should a rebuy be worth the amount of an average stack? So if the tourny has been running for 45 minutes and the average stack is 8k, you can rebuy for 8k? Assuming that 100% was the option you select.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. My assumptions are these:

a) That the average stack in the first few rounds will be close to the starting stack (not a factor of 3x). So, in your example, I'm guessing the original stack would have been around T7000- 7500. If that is incorrect, let me know.

b) That when you rebuy, you are supposed to evaluate the rebuy stack vs. the average stack that it will be facing, not necessarily the starting stack.

If either reasoning is poor, let me know and I can try putting together a corrected poll.

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If you are trying to encourage rebuys, that's one way to do it. But I think you are giving too much power to the rebuyer. The rebuyer shouldn't be rewarded for rebuying and automatically be thrust to average stack size. In a typical Stars rebuy tourny at the end of the rebuy hour, the average stack size is anywhere from 3-7 time the starting stack size.

Also, if you are rebuying at 100% average stack size, how are you going to track this as the tournament progresses. Obviously I'm waiting/stalling to push allin until the allin on the next table finishes up so that my rebuy stack will be a few chips heavier.

I think you have to make the rebuy stack a % of the starting stack whether it be more or less would be up to you. I think Stars has a nice rebuy system, I would model after that.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

Rebuy tournaments come in different variaties; the typical online (and a lot of B & M) allows for a rebuy as soon as your stack is at starting level or below. In consequence the effective starting stack of anybody who cares will be two times the amount of chips you get when you buy in to the tournament. Typically these structures will offer an add-on the same size or higher than the amount of chips you get when you rebuy.

Another popular format is a one-rebuy only, and you can take the rebuy at any point until the first break. Here you frequently get 2 - 3 times the number of chips you started with.

In most rebuy tournaments with unlimited rebuys the amount of chips in play litterally explodes throughout the first couple of levels, since most players consider it advantageous to gamble and accumulate as many chips as possible with little concern about the cost.

I hope this cleared things somewhat up for you.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

"If you are trying to encourage rebuys, that's one way to do it. But I think you are giving too much power to the rebuyer. The rebuyer shouldn't be rewarded for rebuying and automatically be thrust to average stack size. "

So if you were rebuying, you wouldn't be bothered by getting a stack less than ?% of the average stacks?

Your question is the key idea I'm trying to get at- what do people feel is the proper balance between the rebuy stack coming back into the tourney? What would you consider as too low, or too high, for the rebuy stack?

"In a typical Stars rebuy tourny at the end of the rebuy hour, the average stack size is anywhere from 3-7 time the starting stack size."

I don't play online- how low are the starting BB:stack ratios? Or are they just that aggressive? How long are the rounds- 10 minutes?

"Also, if you are rebuying at 100% average stack size, how are you going to track this as the tournament progresses. Obviously I'm waiting/stalling to push allin until the allin on the next table finishes up so that my rebuy stack will be a few chips heavier."

This is intended as an estimated average, in order to set the rebuy stack size- obviously it would be silly to do what your example said and keep raising the rebuy stack each time someone busts. I think we both agree that it wouldn't make sense to change the rebuy stack size at all as the rebuy period progresses (that's partly what the add-on is for).

So, if the starting stack is T2000 and the average stack in the 2nd round would be T4000, then maybe T3000 could be the rebuy stack - making your preferred size 75% of the average stack.

I wasn't sure if using starting stacks instead of average in my poll would get people to overreact to "150% of the starting stack!" when the rebuy stack would in actuality be less than the average stack.

Was I wrong in assuming that you look at average stack when determining whether the rebuy/add on stacks are worth acquiring? I've only played in a few small home rebuy tourneys, and one at the Trop in AC.


" I think Stars has a nice rebuy system, I would model after that."

can you give me details? I don't want to get spammed by the site by browsing through it.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

Stars starts you off with 1500 chips. As long as you have 1500 chips or lower, you can rebuy. So many players will rebuy before the tourny even starts, giving them 3000 chips. Once you bust, you can rebuy for 1500 chips and do a double rebuy to get to 3000.

The addon is worth 2000 chips and each level is 15 minutes. Obviously the rebuy period is over after the 1st hour and the addon begins immediately following the rebuy period. I hope this helps.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stars starts you off with 1500 chips. As long as you have 1500 chips or lower, you can rebuy. So many players will rebuy before the tourny even starts, giving them 3000 chips. Once you bust, you can rebuy for 1500 chips and do a double rebuy to get to 3000.

The addon is worth 2000 chips and each level is 15 minutes. Obviously the rebuy period is over after the 1st hour and the addon begins immediately following the rebuy period. I hope this helps.

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What are the starting blinds, with T1500 or T3000 in starting chips?

I think my poll can still be answered with a double-rebuy format.

I'm assuming that if you were faced with an option to rebuy back in (bustout) for only T1500-2000, then the "starting" stacks of T3000 and presumed average stack of 4K? would keep you from rebuying, right?
That would make 50% a bad threshold for you.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

[ QUOTE ]

What are the starting blinds, with T1500 or T3000 in starting chips?

I think my poll can still be answered with a double-rebuy format.

I'm assuming that if you were faced with an option to rebuy back in (bustout) for only T1500-2000, then the "starting" stacks of T3000 and presumed average stack of 4K? would keep you from rebuying, right?
That would make 50% a bad threshold for you.

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starting blinds are 10/20, 15/30, 25/50, 50/100. You can probably find the typical blind levels on Stars website.

Would average stack of 4k, keep me from not rebuying? Not in the least.

Do a search on rebuy strategy. You will find all kinds of answers to this question, there are a lot of people that go by the maniac rebuy method, pushing allin every hand and rebuying each time, so as to acquire a large stack in hopes of going far ater the bubble. You may also find useful information on the anthology at the top of the MTT forum. Also, check the FAQ.

Good luck.

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

anyone else?

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Was I wrong in assuming that you look at average stack when determining whether the rebuy/add on stacks are worth acquiring? I've only played in a few small home rebuy tourneys, and one at the Trop in AC.


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i don't look at average stack at all. it isn't really of much importance. rebuy cost/prize pool will be roughly equivalent to rebuy stack/total chips in play regardless. (this will be slightly off if addons are discounted)

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

There should be an option to have the rebuy stack the same as a starting stack.

Wouldn't basing it on the average stack mean that rebuys late in the rebuy period got way more chips than rebuys near the beginning?

Re: What are your requirements for rebuying?
 

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There should be an option to have the rebuy stack the same as a starting stack.

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I didn't word it that way in order to examine whether people should consider average stack when deciding whether to rebuy. If your rebuy stack would be 1/2 or less of the average stack, would it make sense to rebuy if you get 125% of the starting stack?
I didn't think simply stating "% of starting stack" would bring up this important point... or I'm wrong about it being important.

"Wouldn't basing it on the average stack mean that rebuys late in the rebuy period got way more chips than rebuys near the beginning?"
I should have worded it "expected average stack." I addressed this in another reply here, but this would not be an escalating rebuy stack based on the round you would buy back into. I would try to figure out the expected average stack at different levels and come up with a resulting locked rebuy stack size.

Does that clear this up?

Important (or unimportant?) note
 

As people continue to vote on this, two clarifications I want to add to make sure you're voting as you intend:

"1) What percentage of the average stack should the rebuy stack equal?"

So far, most have said 100%. That would imply that you would want your rebuy stack to be LARGER than the original stack (so you're closer to the average stack now in play)

Second, I am NOT advocating an increasingly large rebuy stack amount, the later into the tourney that you rebuy.

The rebuy stack size would be static; I would have to figure out what average level there would be during the early rounds of the tourney and set the rebuy stack accordingly.

Just wanted to be clear.
Thanks

Re: Important (or unimportant?) note
 

I think ideally you want the rebuys to equal the starting stacks. If starting stacks = 1500, rebuys = 1500. Rebuys should be allowed anytime your stack = 1500 or less (meaning players may rebuy instantly to 3000) during the first hour. Rebuys should cost the same as the initial buy-in. After the first hour either offer a single add-on of 2000 chips for 1x buy in, or offer players a choice of up to two add-ons of 1500 chips for 1x buyin each. Personally I prefer the double add-on format.

This is the general, standardized format for most rebuy tournaments, and I think will be recieved the best by your players. Even the smallest stacks can end the rebuy period with a competitive 6000 chips or so, so no-one will feel hopelessly short stacked unless they choose to be.

Good luck with it!

Re: Important (or unimportant?) note
 

[ QUOTE ]
"1) What percentage of the average stack should the rebuy stack equal?"

So far, most have said 100%. That would imply that you would want your rebuy stack to be LARGER than the original stack (so you're closer to the average stack now in play)

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I don't think this is correct at all. I think it is more likely people are totally confused by what your saying because you have no idea of how a rebuy tournament works. The best way to get answers for your questions is to actually play some rebuy tournaments. As has been stated previously, Pokerstars has an excellent rebuy system. They have rebuy tournaments for as little as $3 per buy-in. Play some of these, observe the rebuy habits of your opponents, and gain some understanding of these types of tournaments. Consider it "market research"

Re: Important (or unimportant?) note
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"1) What percentage of the average stack should the rebuy stack equal?"

So far, most have said 100%. That would imply that you would want your rebuy stack to be LARGER than the original stack (so you're closer to the average stack now in play)

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I don't think this is correct at all. I think it is more likely people are totally confused by what your saying because you have no idea of how a rebuy tournament works.

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You're assuming a lot- care to explain why?

And I wasn't looking as much for what DOES occur out there, as I was looking for what people think SHOULD happen in a rebuy structure.

I deliberately worded my question the way that I did because I had something in mind. If people are misreading the question, is that only MY fault?

Re: Important (or unimportant?) note
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think ideally you want the rebuys to equal the starting stacks.

Rebuys should be allowed anytime your stack = 1500 or less (meaning players may rebuy instantly to 3000) during the first hour. Rebuys should cost the same as the initial buy-in. After the first hour either offer a single add-on of 2000 chips for 1x buy in, or offer players a choice of up to two add-ons of 1500 chips for 1x buyin each. Personally I prefer the double add-on format.

This is the general, standardized format for most rebuy tournaments, and I think will be recieved the best by your players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you feel that way because it's the standard you've seen, or do you like those aspects- as you stated- for your own reasons?

Rason I ask- I'm inferring that you think that buying in for just the starting stack isn't a good idea (thus the immediate double rebuy). Wouldn't that imply that you'd want the rebuy stack to be bigger than the starting stack, for the one-stack price?