Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

It seems that Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is on the verge of accumulating through purely democratic means sweeping increases in power in order to deliver his promise of "Bolivarian socialism" to the people. His newly acquired powers will include, but are surely not limited to, choosing and defining new administrative districts, greater abilities to nationalize "vital industries", abolishing his term limits in perpetuity (only till 2030, he assures us), and an old forum favorite, appropriating complete control of the money system.

I thought it fitting and appropriate to start a thread to commemorate and chronicle the successes of the vigorous president's soon-to-be acquired powers. Or perhaps record the inevitable consequences.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Buying hugo assasination futures seems like a good diversifier if you own oil futures.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Buying hugo assasination futures seems like a good diversifier if you own oil futures.

[/ QUOTE ]

where are they traded?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

In some ways I want him dead yesterday. In others I hope he sticks around so that the ineveitable flaming burnout of his idiocy can burn the idea of copying him out of peoples minds for a while.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

I haven't looked, but if they are traded anywhere it is intrade

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

To be clear, I didn't mean this to be a thread about assassinating Chavez. I just expect as the reforms take effect and Chavez consolidates his hold over the country increasingly gruesome and brutal details about the newest revolution will begin to emerge. Funds evaporating, political opponents disappearing, mass graves in the Orinoco valley, that sort of thing.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
To be clear, I didn't mean this to be a thread about assassinating Chavez.

[/ QUOTE ]


Of course not. Now how about some side action on whether the CIA gets blamed by Fidel if/when it happens?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Communism collapsed less then 20 years ago.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

I have numerous friends in Colombia who are quite scared about Venezuela and Chavez, they all srsly think that he might invade or some [censored] since theres apparently some outstanding border issues.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Question; The realistic alternative to Chavez is a US puppet in the hands of private power screwing over the poor and increasing the imperial ambitions of the US. Polls show that Chavez is popular and has the majoriy of democratic support. Is he really worth singling out as the worlds douchiest leader?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Question; The realistic alternative to Chavez is a US puppet in the hands of private power screwing over the poor and increasing the imperial ambitions of the US. Polls show that Chavez is popular and has the majoriy of democratic support. Is he really worth singling out as the worlds douchiest leader?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh God. No there is actually a middle oppertunity. It is actually possible to be a sensible leader without being a dictator or being a puppet for the US. There are about a 100 nations in the world that are able to do that, so I cant really see why Venezuela cant do it.

But of course, that doesnt sit well with the extreme left that always think that anyone who arent in direct opposition of the US are automatically the puppets of the US.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question; The realistic alternative to Chavez is a US puppet in the hands of private power screwing over the poor and increasing the imperial ambitions of the US. Polls show that Chavez is popular and has the majoriy of democratic support. Is he really worth singling out as the worlds douchiest leader?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh God. No there is actually a middle oppertunity. It is actually possible to be a sensible leader without being a dictator or being a puppet for the US. There are about a 100 nations in the world that are able to do that, so I cant really see why Venezuela cant do it.

But of course, that doesnt sit well with the extreme left that always think that anyone who arent in direct opposition of the US are automatically the puppets of the US.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true of Latin America. And if you think it is you are either ignorant or deluded.

[ QUOTE ]
sensible leader

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are about a 100 nations in the world that are able to do that

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh.. lol, Im being levelled [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

No you are not being leveled. Why dont you give a proper response in stead of a failed funny response aimed at making fun of my statemnt?

And how is Chile, Brazil and Argentina either a puppet or natural enemy of the US? If they do trade or have agreements with the US they are naturally puppets of the US? Lol, why why try to understand complexity when everything can be: black and white=enemy of US or puppet of the US.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Do you really think there are "about a hundred nations" who have sensible leaders?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
No you are not being leveled. Why dont you give a proper response in stead of a failed funny response aimed at making fun of my statemnt?

And how is Chile, Brazil and Argentina either a puppet or natural enemy of the US? If they do trade or have agreements with the US they are naturally puppets of the US? Lol, why why try to understand complexity when everything can be: black and white=enemy of US or puppet of the US.

[/ QUOTE ]


Brazil is a BRILLIANT example of US puppetry. Seriously, did you put any thought into chosing examples to disprove my claims? I see the answer to my question is... 'ignorant';


[ QUOTE ]
Brazil, for example. In the highly praised history of the Americanization of Brazil that I mentioned, Gerald Haines writes that from 1945 the United States used Brazil as a "testing area for modern scientific methods of industrial development based solidly on capitalism." The experiment was carried out with "the best of intentions." Foreign investors benefited, but planners "sincerely believed" that the people of Brazil would benefit as well. I need not describe how they benefited as Brazil became "the Latin American darling of the international business community" under military rule, in the words of the business press, while the World Bank reported that two-thirds of the population did not have enough food for normal physical activity.
Writing in 1989, Haines describes "America's Brazilian policies" as "enormously successful," "a real American success story." 1989 was the "golden year" in the eyes of the business world, with profits tripling over 1988, while industrial wages, already among the lowest in the world, declined another 20 percent; the UN Report on Human Development ranked Brazil next to Albania. When the disaster began to hit the wealthy as well, the "modern scientific methods of development based solidly on capitalism" (Haines) suddenly became proofs of the evils of statism and socialism-another quick transition that takes place when needed.
To appreciate the achievement, one must remember that Brazil has long been recognized to be one of the richest countries of the world, with enormous advantages, including half a century of dominance and tutelage by the United States with benign intent, which once again just happens to serve the profit of the few while leaving the majority of people in misery.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is on the verge of accumulating through purely democratic means sweeping increases in power in order to deliver his promise of "Bolivarian socialism" to the people.

[/ QUOTE ]


It also seems that American presidents have already accumulated through purely democratic means sweeping increases in power in order to deliver their promise of "national security" to the people.

And it's been going on for at least 150 years with too few people noting or caring.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Put me down for $10 on the Chavez regime lasting 8 years, and killing 1 million.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Put me down for $10 on the Chavez regime lasting 8 years, and killing 1 million.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take the over on both.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is not true of Latin America. And if you think it is you are either ignorant or deluded.

[/ QUOTE ]

try:

Argentina
Belize
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Guatemala
Honduras
Mexico
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Uruguay

plus all the islands

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think there are "about a hundred nations" who have sensible leaders?

[/ QUOTE ]

Zasterguava,

This is your kind of thread! Perhaps it's an exaggeration that Chavez seems to be following a clear path to fascism. Feel free to do some prop betting to profit financially in this thread. Also feel free to collect stories about the future accomplishments of leaders that accumulate personal power, as history as vindicated. This thread is for posterity - surely Chavez does not need another referendum to accomplish his goals?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Unfortunately I don't think Fidel will be alive by the time Chavez leaves power. I have some hope for Cubans yet.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is on the verge of accumulating through purely democratic means sweeping increases in power in order to deliver his promise of "Bolivarian socialism" to the people.

[/ QUOTE ]


It also seems that American presidents have already accumulated through purely democratic means sweeping increases in power in order to deliver their promise of "national security" to the people.

And it's been going on for at least 150 years with too few people noting or caring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. Let me be the first to refrain from any sort of "American exceptionalism" - but by any sort of objective observation, we're a far, far way off from a banana republic.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is not true of Latin America. And if you think it is you are either ignorant or deluded.

[/ QUOTE ]

try:

Argentina
Belize
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Guatemala
Honduras
Mexico
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Uruguay

plus all the islands

[/ QUOTE ]

Again am I being levelled? There has been an ongoing war by the US against democracy in Latin America which is no myth and not disupted by the Wall Street Journal or even CIA officials. Also did you read my post on Brazil? And LOL at Ecuador. Countries in Latin America either seek independence and democracy which means socialism with horrendous effects or fall foul to the imperial ambitions of the US with even more horrendous effects.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Hopefully, Chavez gets strung up by his own people. But I wouldn't mind a Jason Bourne style black-op.

King of Spain to Chavez: "Por que no te callas?"

Chavez: "..."

Owned.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

I'm not gonna offer an opinion on Chavez. I think both he and the situation in his country are immensely complex and not fully understood by most. All I would suggest is that you watch the documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" AKA "Chavez : Inside the Coup". When making opinions, it's best to gather as much information as possible to add context, and I think that this film adds an important piece of context.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363510/

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

zaster, u dont have the slightest clue on what ure talking about.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
zaster, u dont have the slightest clue on what ure talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can assure you I know more about US involvement in Latin America than you do. How about you actually contribute something as opposed to a frivolous one sentence attack that adss nothing. I guess that's how one amounts 6k+ posts- little effort, litte knowledge.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

zaster, ure flaw is that u propose a black or white scenario regarding deiplomatics relationships with USA. That POV is clearly mistkan becuase being USAs puppet would mean direct opposition to Venezuela, no country in SA is an american puppet as u propose, if it was like that then you bet Chavez would be spouting BS agaisnt that country.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
...fall foul to the imperial ambitions of the US with even more horrendous effects.


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean by horrendous effects?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Quick google search;

[ QUOTE ]
US Intervention in Latin America
and the Caribbean - a Chronology
"I spent thirty three years and four months in active service as a member of our country’s most agile military force,
the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks, from a second lieutenant to major-general. And during that
period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and for the
bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism...I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National
City Bank to collect revenues in...I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking house of Brown
Brothers...I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916…"
US General, Smedley D Butler, 1935
USA Pole, another at the Panama Canal and the
third at the South Pole. The whole hemisphere
will be ours in fact as, by virtue of our
superiority of race, it already is ours morally."
1914: The US navy shells the port city of Veracruz,
an attack apparently caused by the refusal of
some Mexicans to salute the Stars & Stripes.
During World War I, the US also invaded
Mexico and Hispaniola (present day
Dominican Republic and Haiti). They stayed
for 20 years.
1933: US forces leave Nicaragua leaving dictator
Anastasio Somoza and his National Guard in
control.
1954: The CIA orchestrates the overthrow of the
democratically-elected government of Jacobo
Arbenz, in Guatemala. A Guatemalan poet
described the Arbenz government as "years of
spring in a country of eternal tyranny." Almost
40 years of violence and repression followed,
culminating in the "scorched earth" government
terror of the 1980s. Over 150,000 people
lost their lives.
1961: US-backed forces invade Cuba but suffer
defeat at the Bay of Pigs.
1965: 23,000 troops sent to the Dominican
Republic to "restore order", following a popular
uprising against the country ’s military
regime.
1973: A US-backed coup overthrows the elected
government of Salvador Allende, ushering in
the regime of General Augusto Pinochet.
1981: The Reagan Administration initiates the "contra
war" against the Sandinista government in
Nicaragua.
1983: US invasion of Grenada.
1989: US invasion of Panama to arrest one-time protégé,
Manual Noriega. The operation leaves
thousands of civilian casualties.
1990: Massive US intervention in the Nicaraguan
election process through covert and overt
means. Washington openly funded the opposition
coalition, yet such foreign funding of US
parties would be illegal under US law.
2000: As part of the "War on Drugs", the US launches
Plan Colombia, a massive civil and military
aid programme for a country with perhaps the
worst human rights record in the hemisphere.
Total US funding is $1.3 bn, with 83 percent
of that going to the military. Plan Colombia
later becomes subsumed into the War on
Terror.
2002: The US supports and funds elements that
organised the unsuccessful April 11 coup in
Venezuela.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Chavez is attempting to deploy the State against the elite banking class, most states are deployed by and for the elite banking class. looks like the US media has done a good job getting all sides of the sheep paddock baaing in unison.

Every story I have seen about Chavez goes like this:

Sensational headline playing on all the stereotypes and fears of the american/western public which then evaporates under sober factual analysis. Public as with most issues rarely bothers to look at the sober analysis.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

The fact that USA has intervened in Latin America doesnt imply that countries can either be USA puppets or totally anti-american.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chavez is attempting to deploy the State against the elite banking class, most states are deployed by and for the elite banking class. looks like the US media has done a good job getting all sides of the sheep paddock baaing in unison.

Every story I have seen about Chavez goes like this:

Sensational headline playing on all the stereotypes and fears of the american/western public which then evaporates under sober factual analysis. Public as with most issues rarely bothers to look at the sober analysis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. The "elite banking class". Interesting.
From the [censored] New York Times:

[ QUOTE ]

The major threat to the economy comes from the exchange rate. Oil caused the bolívar to be overvalued. Farms and factories are in trouble. They can’t export and must compete at home with products imported at the official exchange rate, which is now about a third of the market rate. And so the country is awash in artificially cheap imported products, from basic foodstuffs, like Brazilian cooking oil, to fancy cars. “Our productive capacity is too weak to create jobs,” Petkoff says. “But we consume like a rich country."

The disparity between the official exchange rate (2,150 bolívars to the dollar) and the black-market rate (6,200 bolívars at press time) has created a new class known as the Boliburgesía. Bankers, traders, anyone who works in finance or commerce, can get very rich manipulating the exchange rates. Buy all the imported whiskey and Hummers you want, is the message. Live a life of wild excess. Just don’t try to produce anything.


[/ QUOTE ]

An Inconvenient Truth to the class struggle message, no?

Edit: Another Financial Times Article. Title: Bankers Get Rich From Chavez's Revolution

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Well to be clear Im not talking about a class struggle.

More of a class pawnage along the lines of International elite banking class pawning everyone else. Im not talking about a working class struggle etc in any way.

Venezuala has a current account surplus of around 7 billion thanks to oil. Chavez is spending that on ponies for everyone and I assumed that would be one in the eye for the Banking class, group hegemony etc. Turns out that they are clever that I first thought and even that turns to their advantage.

Though as the end of your link states, this might be all about to change.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well to be clear Im not talking about a class struggle.

More of a class pawnage along the lines of International elite banking class pawning everyone else. Im not talking about a working class struggle etc in any way.

Venezuala has a current account surplus of around 7 billion thanks to oil. Chavez is spending that on ponies for everyone and I assumed that would be one in the eye for the Banking class, group hegemony etc. Turns out that they are clever that I first thought and even that turns to their advantage.

Though as the end of your link states, this might be all about to change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that begs the question then: Is Chavez battling the International Elite Banking Class or allied with them? Is he really a True Socialist? And if those damn clever bankers are finding yet another way to profit, how can true socialism ever be enacted?

Meh, me, power-hungry myself, I prefer Mao's early approach: just claim you have to build up capitalism to its zenith, so that the True Democratic Socialism emerges from the ashes. It's a great excuse.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

Fed seems keen to devalue the dollar. Chavez wants to price Oil in euros. Coincidence?

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

I really do respect the revolutionary attitude of South American countries and have no problem with the socialist movements there, but I just can't find much on Chavez that makes me hopeful.

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Put me down for $10 on the Chavez regime lasting 8 years, and killing 1 million.

[/ QUOTE ]

These numbers sound somehow familiar. Hmmm....

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

The juxtaposition of "Hugo Chavez" and "death" always brings a smile to my face. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Put me down for $10 on the Chavez regime lasting 8 years, and killing 1 million.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I've said before, if we had to attack and occupy an oil producing country run by a brutal dictator, Venezuela was a better choice than Iraq.