200nl stars river bluff shove
 

Villian was 19/16 over 150 hands, but i dont remember playing with him recently. At first i was calling down cause I thought i was ahead. On the turn i decided that if a heart, Q or 7 fell it would be a pretty sweet bluff spot. (i still think i could have the best hand here, but this is sort of like covering all the bases imo)


Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $272
BB: $202
UTG: $366.55
Hero (BTN): $294.80

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $8</font>, Hero calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $14</font>, Hero calls $14

Turn: ($47) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $37</font>, Hero calls $37

River: ($121) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $86</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $235.80 and is All-In</font>,


thoughts...

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

I fold on turn usually as i dont think you have the best hand here often at all, and I dont like the idea of calling this turn bet just to bluff later on river.

also cut off action after the river raise?

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

don't post results. I really don't like it because the flush draw missed and you are really only repping 3 combos of T8s.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

fold turn

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

yea sorry i posted results by mistake. alright forget the turn for a little... im way crazier than most of ssnl anyway. thoughts on the river

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

I think it might be for sure a little loose, but it certainly is a bold play. I think the heart is a scarier bluff card that a 7 or a Q though. Hard for him to put you on exactly 108, nothing else really improves with those river cards. As played, I'm folding the river. That said I'm folding to his turn lead for sure and might not call flop if he doesn't cbet much.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

I think if he folded, you had the best hand. I cannot remember ever seeing someone with those stats fire three shells only to fold to a river raise when only one draw got there.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it might be for sure a little loose, but it certainly is a bold play. I think the heart is a scarier bluff card that a 7 or a Q though. Hard for him to put you on exactly 108, nothing else really improves with those river cards. As played, I'm folding the river. That said I'm folding to his turn lead for sure and might not call flop if he doesn't cbet much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if youre gonna call this preflop is horrible to fold to a cbet on the flop

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think if he folded, you had the best hand. I cannot remember ever seeing someone with those stats fire three shells only to fold to a river raise when only one draw got there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. What if he has AA... hes def 3 barreling this board. However, i think AA has to fold to this shove, or at least should.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

trying to bluff people of aa there is a bad idea, no?

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

im not so sure it is a bad idea. Think about if you had AA and were facing this action for someone relatively unknown to you. Wouldnt you fold to the river shove

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

i agree we probably had the best hand. if we had 108 of hearts we are raising at some point as well as with a set and he should have no reason to think we'd be in there with 108 offsuit unless we are a huge donkey.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

its a very ineffective bluff and everything that beats you will call

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

meh while I might fold aces there, i think its a bad idea to give your opponent credit to be able to make such a play, unless you have a good idea that he is capable of folding aces there

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

well... im very surprised to hear alot of these thoughts. I thought it would be very effective. Im very sure if it were used against me it would be effective, as I would fold AJ in his seat all day long

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

sigh 2+2 depresses me

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
don't post results. I really don't like it because the flush draw missed and you are really only repping 3 combos of T8s.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why three? I only see T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] being special here (by calling the turn bet).

OP: Are you crazy in general at the tables or just sometimes? Because if I'd ever seen you do this I guess I won't fold QQ+ here.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

yea im kind of crazy i guess.... i dont really have a fold button

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
well... im very surprised to hear alot of these thoughts. I thought it would be very effective. Im very sure if it were used against me it would be effective, as I would fold AJ in his seat all day long

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah AJ gets folded, but are most villains of this type leading on all 3 streets like this w/ TPTK? That and AJ makes up a small part of his range anyway as played.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

basicallly i think almost his entire range is Aj-AA and bluffs. Since i think the top of this range (AA) folds to my action then i think this must be good

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

but how do you know he folds aa there?

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

i dont know that, but i fold AA here, and i feel like alot of people do as well. That was what i thought during the hand.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

I think this is good against a lot of 200 regs.

Also if you dont think myke can have T8 or 97 here...lol.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

Wouldn't we raise here on a flop or at least turn with a set, so we can stack AA?

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

on a board like this alot of people call down with sets. if youre trying to slowplay it looks very strong to raise the turn

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
well... im very surprised to hear alot of these thoughts. I thought it would be very effective. Im very sure if it were used against me it would be effective, as I would fold AJ in his seat all day long

[/ QUOTE ]

He never has AJ in this spot. For what it's worth thou without reads I'll fold to ur river raise w aces even thou this shove does look pretty bluffy. Thing is I was pretty sure he was stronger than just an overpair, but I guess I'm wrong bc ur posting this and defending it hard so I guess it worked.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
He never has AJ in this spot. For what it's worth thou without reads I'll fold to ur river raise w aces even thou this shove does look pretty bluffy. Thing is I was pretty sure he was stronger than just an overpair, but I guess I'm wrong bc ur posting this and defending it hard so I guess it worked.



[/ QUOTE ]

AJ is basically AA here.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

if i was him i could have aj here

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think if he folded, you had the best hand. I cannot remember ever seeing someone with those stats fire three shells only to fold to a river raise when only one draw got there.

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I disagree with this. What if he has AA... hes def 3 barreling this board. However, i think AA has to fold to this shove, or at least should.

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lol? why would AA fold to this shove when it looks like a busted frush?

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

I don't really like it. Your perceived range at the river is basically 99,22,97,T8 and some frequency of bluffs with QT and busted heart draws. Villain needs to be good 25% to call and about 75% of your range is air so if you are bluffing with the busted draws even half the time villain should call.

The only reason this might work imo is the fact that villain did bet the river. This tells me that he thinks most of your range is made hands and not draws so if that is true then this should work bc nobody turns a made hand into a bluff here.

Still i hate trying to get people to fold overpairs but I guess there is only one way to find out if they will.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

you are repping specifically 108 and not must else and he already has a large chunk of his stack committed to the pot, so i really don't like this at all. i think if he folds, you are bluffing with the best hand as u arent really repping a range of hands he can be afraid of given how the turn played out.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

you're repping specifically 108? This is spew.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

bad unless you have a read that the guy is a standard 200nl nit that folds any pair if you shove a bunch of chips in his face

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

this reminds me somewhat of the hand jk3a posted (though totally different board textures). this does look like spew though.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

myke, so if your him, your folding AA to a river shove ? After this action ? LOL, ok

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

I would snap call with AJ+ getting 3:1 here in lieu of the zillion busted draws, unless villain (hero in this case) was absolutely incapable of doing anything not entirely ABC. I think this is a pretty spewy bluff unless you have a read that this guy is mega nitty postflop. Meh, even there. Nitty guys tend to be: I have an overpair - call. So I think this is just spewy.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know that, but i fold AA here, and i feel like alot of people do as well.

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I think that is a poor assumption at 200NL. I think it might be better to assume the opposite until proven otherwise.

Re: 200nl stars river bluff shove
 

don't like it. i pinch it on the turn.