200NL Ethics Question
 

This isn't exactly a strategy question, but I'm not sure the best forum to post this in, so if Mods want to move it, feel free.

Live 1/2

UTG is a loose agressive gambler and has $120
CO is a slightly loose but decent player with $250
I cover
UTG raises to $20 CO calls $20.
I have AQo OTB and make it $120.
UTG says, I'm going to make a really bad call because I won with this hand earlier. He calls, CO folds, and I say, AJ, right? He says yup.

As he's forcefully flipping his cards, one flies off the table and onto his chair. He finds the card, but the dealer calls the floor. I tell the floor I'm happy to let him play, but the floor rules his hand dead. The dealer shoves me the pot.

The CO, who didn't like me, starts making a big stink about it, saying I should give him his money back, etc. I ask the dealer if he can deal us out the cards, and he says I'll show you the flop. He deals out the flop which is J high rainbow and then immediately mucks the cards without showing the turn or river.

So, what should I do in this situation?
A) Keep all the money because he should have kept control of his hand.
B) Treat it like the guy folded and give him back $100 and keep the rest.
C) Give him back his pot equity after the flop: about $240
D) Give him the whole pot since he probably would have won: $255
E) Something else?

I made a decision that I thought was right at the time, but now I think I was biased due to disliking the CO, and being down for the night. I think I would have done it differently if I was up.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

You made a good gesture by telling the floor that he could play. They made their ruling, now obey it and move on. Tell CO to STFU and get to the next hand. I have a hard time giving a guy money after he 1) can't handle his own cards, and 2) made a terrible call preflop and sucked out on the flop.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

I would firstly tell CO how much I am enjoying not giving him "his" money back. He deserves it.

I would really rather have not seen the flop being dealt, as my instinct would be to give UTG his equity in the pot - i.e, ~33% of it. I would look at his preflop equity, not what happened on the rabbit hunting.

However, making this kind of decision, you have to be aware that most people will not do the same for you.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

First, I would just obey the ruling and take the pot. There's nothing imoral with that and it would be the correct thing to do.

But now you decided to do the kind gesture asking the dealer to deal you the cards you should go with C imo.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

A good place to ask live poker ethics questions is in the brick and mortar threads.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

The point of poker is to win money (at least, I assume it is for you). The game has rules. If other people break it, then the rules come into play. If it had happened to your cards the ruling would have been the same in favour of the other guy. This is the reason that we try to play by the rules. There is a reason behind the rules, you see? You can't have cards, chips and chairs flying all over the place.

So take the money and next time he'll be more careful with the cards.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

What you should have done was to say 'sorry man but hey, I had AQ anyway'. You for some odd reason decided to have the dealer deal out the flop which was sort of dumb and now you should really do c) or at the very least b).

Having the dealer deal out the flop implies that you will abide by that flop imo and not doing so sort of makes you look like an ass.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

A

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

you shouldn't have asked the dealer to rabbit hunt.

either keep the whole pot or if you are feeling generous do an equity chop (ie - give him 25% of the pot)

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

tell him you had the rawkets

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

you also might want to x-post in the B&M forum.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

Why the [censored] would you ask to see the flop? That's pretty dumb since the hand's over. Take the whole pot, and move to the next hand.

A imo.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

by seeing the flop, it makes things a little weird, but whatever, rules are rules, A

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

You can't give him chips from your stack because that would be ratholing.

There's nothing unethical about keeping a pot the dealer pushed to you, especially after a floor consultation. Remember that the thing that started this whole incident is when the opponent mishandled his cards. He brought this on himself.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

A, and it's not close.

You've done nothing but follow the rules of the game. Doing B, C or D might be a nice gesture, but you are in no way ethically obligated to do so.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
A

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus he outdrew you.

What if turn is Q, river is A and he had checked the flop. U stack him right?

This is a really funny ethics thread

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

E) meet him in the parking lot for a lil nutzinyamouth style 5/10 hu

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

[ QUOTE ]
you shouldn't have asked the dealer to rabbit hunt.

either keep the whole pot or if you are feeling generous do an equity chop (ie - give him 25% of the pot)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good luck trying to explain an equity chop to a random idiot at a casino.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

You can do whatever you want, but why on earth did you ask to see the cards if you intended to not do anything about it? Just shut up, take the pot, and throw your cards face down to muck pile as soon as you have cash.

This will annoy CO enough. If you want to annoy him more and do what you did, that's your prerogative, but you are definitely being weird.

Re: 200NL Ethics Question
 

You should take the pot and NOT ask to rabbit hunt. First off, whatever you think about it, those are the rules so you should respect that and follow them. This could create a bad expectation to everybody if something strange happens again.

As far as the rabbit hunting goes, it sure seems as though you're giving what is at least and strong implication that you're going to let the showdown determine who wins the chips. Otherwise, why are you requesting a rabbit hunt? Therefore, after the rabbit hunt, it seems like you need to offer him at least his money back and possibly the whole pot if you don't want to look like a two-faced jerk (I'm not saying you are; just that it COULD appear this way to the people at the table).
Ideally, just take the chips when awarded and move on to the next hand with nothing more said or done about that hand.