An old hand from my database
 

I was looking back over my DB and this hand stood out. Villain is 49/30/2.7 over a 50 hand sample. I don't think i'd 3 bet him yet so i had no idea about his frequencies. How standard is everything so far, and whats your line from there?

Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $293.07
SB: $529.79
Hero (BB): $197
UTG: $161.52
CO: $197

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $6</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $23</font>, BTN calls $17

Flop: ($47) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $37</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $74</font>, Hero ?

Re: An old hand from my database
 

i shove here, you are well ahead of his range judging by his stats

Re: An old hand from my database
 

I'm getting it in complete w/ fist pump.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

are you guys seriously shoving 150bb deep here?
I can see villain calling preflop with overpairs.

I don´t bet as much as you did though. I usually cbet about 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot and not more. There was a good post by cts about that somewhere in his well.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you guys seriously shoving 150bb deep here?

[/ QUOTE ]

100

Re: An old hand from my database
 

we're not 150BB deep, hero only has ~100BB

given his stats, I'd prolly be pretty happy with getting it in here

Re: An old hand from my database
 

does he really have QJ and KJ that often ?
I can actually see a fold here depending on his post flop game. I think you're looking at a set, overpair a significant portion of the time here.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
are you guys seriously shoving 150bb deep here?

[/ QUOTE ]

100

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry misread the post

Re: An old hand from my database
 

50 hand sample? I get it in here. I deffinately do NOT pump my fist tho.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

push, and I'm pretty happy about it vs him.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

push seems ok but 150bb deep i thin this is a fold

Re: An old hand from my database
 

Get it in.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

If were getting it in here, doesn't this seem like a good spot to call the flop and either donk or check/raise the turn?

Re: An old hand from my database
 

he still calls with 10J or KJ now, and turn might either bring him a scarecard, or helps his hand.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

Boards pretty dry, and i have an A, whats a bad turn card?

And for the record, people are putting him squarely on JT+?

Re: An old hand from my database
 

Q a K or A

he wont stack off anymore with his KJ when the ace hits

Re: An old hand from my database
 

There's like a 6% chance the turn is an A.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

I like a call and C/RAI on the turn. Sure their will be a few bad cards, but I think it gives you better expectation in the long run since a b/3b looks way too strong for QJ and even KJ to get it in here.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

yeah but the Q and K are bad too, he might even have 78s or whatever, or be testing the water with his pocket 10's.

bottomline, if you push over his flop raise you either:
-get it in vs a hand you beat now and win.
-get it in vs a hand you lose to, and lose.
-get it in vs a hand you beat, and he folds

if you call his flop bet, and play a turn trying to get it in on the turn.
-you still get the money in vs hands you beat and win
OR
-if a scarecard hits, he now folds those hands that you beat.
-you still get the money in vs hands that beat you, and lose.
-he c/f his worse hands
-he now improves his hand on the turn to a better hand than yours, that he else would've folded on the flop.

maybe I dont explain it completely right, I find this pretty tough to explain.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

you're missing the benefit of craing the turn, which is that he will bet his mediocre hand and then become attached to it. We don't know if he'll stack off with his hand now.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

I'd like to know how you've played this table so far...yeah he's a loose cannon, but a lot of his play in this hand hedges on how he perceives you as well..

If you're a rock, this is a tougher decision.

I definitely dont push flop...Flatcall and decide on the turn..You're probably guaranteed a JK, JQ, maybe JT stack on the turn as well if thats what he's actually got

Re: An old hand from my database
 

stack off.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

i shove.... id be shocked if he folded, having already commited close to $100. youre ahead alot

Re: An old hand from my database
 

If you stove a range, and its 50/50, should you always shove?

Re: An old hand from my database
 

Yes, look at all the money in the pot.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you stove a range, and its 50/50, should you always shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty obviously not true.

In this scenario though JESUS CHRIST SHOVELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Re: An old hand from my database
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you stove a range, and its 50/50, should you always shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty obviously not true.

In this scenario though JESUS CHRIST SHOVELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats not true? The range, or the assertion?

Re: An old hand from my database
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you stove a range, and its 50/50, should you always shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty obviously not true.

In this scenario though JESUS CHRIST SHOVELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats not true? The range, or the assertion?

[/ QUOTE ]

The assertion. There are many times you are 50/50 against his range where calling will lead to higher EV opportunities.

Re: An old hand from my database
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you stove a range, and its 50/50, should you always shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty obviously not true.

In this scenario though JESUS CHRIST SHOVELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats not true? The range, or the assertion?

[/ QUOTE ]

The assertion. There are many times you are 50/50 against his range where calling will lead to higher EV opportunities.

[/ QUOTE ]
I assume its better not to get it in when you can get it in on a safe turn vs a monster draw, where you will have more equity (kind of an Omaha concept, but it still works)?

Re: An old hand from my database
 

I swear i disagree with SSNL advice so often?

If anybody is interested in results:

<font color="white">
I did decide to call and see what happened on the turn. It came the rainbow Q, i checked, he bet 100 flat, i folded, he showed a set of 6's.</font>

[ QUOTE ]

I assume its better not to get it in when you can get it in on a safe turn vs a monster draw, where you will have more equity (kind of an Omaha concept, but it still works)?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was also in the Small Stakes Hold'em:WBWEP book.