PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

not sure what to make of Villan (23/8/2.2), one of those kinda passive types who seem to make a few weird plays and are probably breakeven at best. i think its kinda standard up till the turn, FWIW villan seemed to take an age making decisions on all streets, which kinda gave me the impression they didnt have a clue where they were/what to do

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $170.43
CO: $23.50
Button: $102.50
SB: $108.40
BB: $183.61

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($27, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $27</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $84</font>, Hero???

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

i never raise this flop. check the turn after you did. fold now unless you plan on shoving a spade river if checked too.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

I open this up preflop for a raise fwiw.

As played I like the raise and the double barrel.

I fold to the reraise tho.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

yeah i agree with raising this preflop.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

Why would you fold to the check/raise? It looks almost certain that we're up against top set in which case villain only has two possible cards to make a FD with. If that's the case, we have 16 outs and easily have direct odds to call. Even if villain does have set+FD (which I doubt), we've still got 11 outs and some implied odds.

FWIW though, against a passive type, you really don't need to raise a wrap on a FD board. Just calling down and trying to hit your hand or possibly bluff a flush card is the play here.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i agree with raising this preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree although not all of the time. i limp with these hands about 50% of the time UTG, as i do with AAxx and KKxx.

just depends on table dynamics, how im feeling etc

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

even a monster wrap is severely damaged with 2 to a suit on the board. if this guy connected to this board in any way including a flush draw, you look to be in trouble. plus this is a limped pot; i would just try to spike the nuts and draw cheaply.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

as played on the turn, and given how deep it is,,, i prob call it... you almost have the correct odds to call... plus alot of your straight cards will get you somewhat payed off, even by a passive villian...and chances are as played he doesnt have spades so i normally call this.. and shove any spade if checked to

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

raise preflop, call flop, then call turn if he bets again. I would check behind if he checks to you on turn after you call the flop. I think it can be a big leak to overplay wraps on flushdraw boards, since you end up have to guess as to the right play when your card comes in that also happens to make your flush. As played call the turn and fold if you dont improve.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

OK this is how the hand went down. the turn i just thought was bizzare it was like a 3/4 pot reraise giving me 2.4-1 pot odds, and looking at the actual win % i was 2.6-1 to make my hand so calling is far from a mistake as i only need $15 or so on the river to make it a breakeven call

the river was obviously a bad card for me, probably the worst in the deck, but does anyone fold here getting 7-1?? im certainly not good enough

All in all i thought i played this hand fairly well - i think the repot on the flop in an unraised pot is standard, as im obviously trying to get 2 pair to lay down. i have to 2 barrel the turn as im representing a monster, and im sure that its a +ev bet as that type of player will lay down a lesser hand that has me beat a good% of the time. the result sucks but if the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] drops and they call a river shove from me it all of a sudden looks textbook


Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $170.43
CO: $23.50
Button: $102.50
SB: $108.40
BB: $183.61

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($27, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $27</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $84</font>, Hero calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($195, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $35</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $265
<font color="#ffffff">BB shows 9s As 6s Jc</font>
<font color="#ffffff">Hero mucks Tc Qh 8h Th</font>

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

I dont think your play is standard at all.

Call with draws, raise with made hands.
the raise on the turn just kills your positional advantage,
just take a free card and be happy.

And I think the turn is an easy fold,
though you might have pot odds you are behind 100% with poor implied odds.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

I raise PF,
I like the flop raise IF youre checking the turn. The call on the turn is marginal imo. A flush draw with something else is probably a decent part of his range. And yeah, I call that river as well. Many would blockbet here with a set or whatever.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think your play is standard at all.

Call with draws, raise with made hands.
the raise on the turn just kills your positional advantage,
just take a free card and be happy.

And I think the turn is an easy fold,
though you might have pot odds you are behind 100% with poor implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with just calling in this particular spot due to the passivity of our opponent, this is terrible advice in general. If this is how you play all the time, you're going to be very easy to read and you'll get hammered by good players.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

I like the just call on the flop. As others have said, if you raise the flop, it's mostly for a free river, so check it behind.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the just call on the flop. As others have said, if you raise the flop, it's mostly for a free river, so check it behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

its a fair point. i think i was probably too eager to go after the only other 200bb stack on the table in retrospect, as i felt if i hammered them enough i could force an error.

whoever said c/c, just checking and calling draws all the time is very exploitable, as has been pointed out

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

his lead and call on the flop seems to be two pair or bottm/medium set with maybe the FD. With top set he would have repot no?

Here I check this turn for pot control, I don't think villain is bluffing a lot given his stats... and his c/r on a safe turn is scaring. Even a fold is not bad IMO.

Now call and see the river, but a fold wouldn't be bad IMO.

From BB he can have any 4, J9xx or 44xx woudn't surprise me.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

[ QUOTE ]

whoever said c/c, just checking and calling draws all the time is very exploitable, as has been pointed out

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously I dont always cc draws,
but he has already called a check raise once,
this seems like an ideal spot to take a free card.

I just think on this hand its standard to take a free card,
mainly because you have position and the stacks are so shallow that if you bet he can kill your implied odds and position with a raise.

Re: PLO100 - Playing a wrap deep
 

[ QUOTE ]
the stacks are so shallow that if you bet he can kill your implied odds and position with a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok i appreciate your point, but ~200bb isnt shallow