position in PLO is overrated
 

After doing a ton of analysis, I'm prepared to claim that whoever it was that said position in PLO is less important than in NLH was right after all. The main problem most people have with playing OOP is not knowing which hands to play or how to play them.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

I don't think I ever said it here, but I definitely agree with it.

As long as I'm not at a table with numerous maniacs raising preflop constantly, my position doesn't factor into what hands I will play very much. I'm not uncomfortable flopping marginal hands OOP, I think those situations are easy enough to navigate once you're experienced.

And let's not forget, nothing makes a fish react more irrationally than a well timed check raise.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

I still disagree, but I'd like to hear what you think the main problem is.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
After doing a ton of analysis, I'm prepared to claim that whoever it was that said position in PLO is less important than in NLH was right after all. The main problem most people have with playing OOP is not knowing which hands to play or how to play them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you play 50,000 hands against an opponent of equal skill where your opponent got the button every single hand?

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

troll,

position is more important in PLO than NL doesn't mean it has absolutely no value. I wouldn't play 50,000 hands of any game knowingly against an opponent of equal skill anyway.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After doing a ton of analysis, I'm prepared to claim that whoever it was that said position in PLO is less important than in NLH was right after all. The main problem most people have with playing OOP is not knowing which hands to play or how to play them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you play 50,000 hands against an opponent of equal skill where your opponent got the button every single hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

stupid question. of course i wouldn't.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

I'm a novice poker player and pretty casual about it......

It seems more important to me that I recognize when I'm out of position on a table or hand and massage the pot accordingly, as opposed to it dictating what cards I choose to continue with.

At the stakes I play 25/50PLO most players (including me) don't know how to utilize position effectively to their benefit anyway.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

At the midstakes I think that I agree with you Pete, but I think this is just a product of the overall player pool being much worse at the same levels when compared to NLHE.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After doing a ton of analysis, I'm prepared to claim that whoever it was that said position in PLO is less important than in NLH was right after all. The main problem most people have with playing OOP is not knowing which hands to play or how to play them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you play 50,000 hands against an opponent of equal skill where your opponent got the button every single hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

stupid question. of course i wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]
would you play 50,000 hands of PLO and 50,000 hands of NL against an opponent of equal skill in each, where you had the button in NL and he had it in PLO? If so, how much (in terms of BB) would you pay for this opportunity? If not, how much would you need to be paid?

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

I would take this deal straight up, but I certainly wouldn't pay much for it as I believe that the edge is very very slim.

Also everybody that reads this will have probably a hard time truly imagining 'an opponent of equal skill.'

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

it depends on the stacksizes. and its the same in nlhe or plo - for 20bb eff. position is not important because when u want to play a hand you either reraise preflop and are comitted or u call and on a favorable flop raise all-in / check-raise all-in, as for 200-300bb position is huge advantage

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

i have to dis agree greatly. i find that position is paramount in plo, looking at my stats they agree also

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

Not sure if this will be articulated right.

Position is very important me. But relative position to what you're trying to do is more so.

ie, the float/check/bet is usually better OOP against the raise all pre and flop monkeys.
But playing marinal to set up future big hands seems to work better w/position.

Not to hijack. But I think table selection is almost as important at mid stakes.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

I'm not sure these headsup analogies are particularly useful, Round, as to what I believe Pete is driving at. Which is, at a guess, that in the current games we play in, the win rates in postion are not as stark as we might expect. But on reflection, we *should* expect that.

gl

bdd

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure these headsup analogies are particularly useful, Round, as to what I believe Pete is driving at. Which is, at a guess, that in the current games we play in, the win rates in postion are not as stark as we might expect. But on reflection, we *should* expect that.

gl

bdd

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm driving at is that I've compared PLO and NLH statistically and I think the case that position is more important in NLH is crystal clear.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

can you elaborate on what stats you used to come to this conclusion?

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
can you elaborate on what stats you used to come to this conclusion?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we are entering Pete's Tin Foil Super-Secret World......

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can you elaborate on what stats you used to come to this conclusion?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we are entering Pete's Tin Foil Super-Secret World......

[/ QUOTE ]


I have seen said stats. Pete tells the truth.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After doing a ton of analysis, I'm prepared to claim that whoever it was that said position in PLO is less important than in NLH was right after all. The main problem most people have with playing OOP is not knowing which hands to play or how to play them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you play 50,000 hands against an opponent of equal skill where your opponent got the button every single hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

stupid question. of course i wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]
would you play 50,000 hands of PLO and 50,000 hands of NL against an opponent of equal skill in each, where you had the button in NL and he had it in PLO? If so, how much (in terms of BB) would you pay for this opportunity? If not, how much would you need to be paid?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't really say wrt heads-up play, since I think it has special properties and I haven't done the analysis. However, if I could play a 6-handed match in which we would play hold'em while I was on the button, in the cutoff, or cutoff+1, and play Omaha while I was utg or in the blinds, I would pay at least 1bb/100 for the opportunity and perhaps more.

Re: position in PLO is overrated
 

Pete, we're talking 100bb online here? my answers change for live and deeper...