88 UTG in 12/180
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB (t2700)
BB (t2040)
UTG (t2720)
Hero (t3785)
MP1 (t1920)
MP2 (t2475)
MP3 (t3520)
CO (t1085)
Button (t3710)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t450</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t1920</font>,Hero reluctantly calls?

comments on the initial raise and on subsequent action please.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

Any reads here? I don't think you can lay this down without a read given the fact that you are getting about 2-1 and that MP1 isn't floating in chips. Personally, I prefer a limp here UTG+1 unless at a tight table where your raises will get people to fold stuff like KQ or A10.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

This is a terrible spot to have 88. If you limp and get raised a fair amount, the stacks are too shallow to call for set value right? You'd have to repop all-in or fold. Raising a mid pocket OOP with only 25 bb's is awkward too. Hmmm

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

I agree with starchyy...tough call with no reads on villan. With your chip stack I'd probably fold, and hope to make use of the image you just established (or reinforced) in a later hand. Sounds like it's realtively early in the tournament, not sure I'd want risk going from 3375 to 1865 in chips with 88 PF. I'm a bit biased on the subject though, got knocked out of a MTT yesterday at a local casino with 88 UTG. Raised 3xBB and UTG flat called. Flop came 8-K-3 unsuited, I shoved and he called w/ KK...I don't mean to hijackk your thread here, just sharing why my perspective may not be correct right now.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

One of those iffy hands here..depends a lot on table dynamic as mentioned previously though..at a tight table I believe you can raise..you have to call this push as well getting this price..at a LAG table probably need to muck this in EP..

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

If my math is corect you're getting around 2-1 on your call. I'd make the call, but, as you said, reluctantly.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

what was the table dynamic? basically thats the biggest factor here other than villain specific reads.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

I only call this if you're sure villain knows re-stealing and tried before or you showed weakness like raising and folding to a re-raise before or villain is donk on tilt or whatever. Otherwise and most of the time this is easy fold for me.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

ehhhhh i hate raise folding with this #of bb. so i probably limp unless its a tight table

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

We're not going away now are we? 2-1 we'll still have 9 bb's if we lose, his range is wide, I call.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

You can't lay this down now, he just put himself in a bad spot by raising imo.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

1.8-1 odds are good for calling all in from tight player too but here we have like 25bb, if we fold we'll have 22bb and if we call and lose we'll have like 12bb. i don't like getting under 15bb because it makes re-steal and a lot of things harder. I think folding here and playing with 22bb is better than calling and probably coinflipping.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

Alright, so I guess the general consensus here is to limp pf for set value. Also, I've played maybe 20 of these 12/180 in the past 2 months and have found that the quality of play in the early-mid game is quite poor. This is why I think that the call in this particular hand is appropriate as villain's hand is quite wide.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

i like a limp given stack size i like a fold as played given stack size.now think if you limped he raises 4 bbyou see a flop for 600 and can double through and hopefully someone else will call pre too building a nice pot .

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

[ QUOTE ]
1.8-1 odds are good for calling all in from tight player too but here we have like 25bb, if we fold we'll have 22bb and if we call and lose we'll have like 12bb. i don't like getting under 15bb because it makes re-steal and a lot of things harder. I think folding here and playing with 22bb is better than calling and probably coinflipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong..if you're avoiding flips in a turbo don't play..also getting close to 2:1 you're calling all day

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

i dont like this math fellas. were getting 2:1 but we are like 10:1 to flop a set. we have no idea where we stand unless we set. those are spots where we make mistakes and lose our whole stack. FOLD . raising pre utg w 88 is bad real bad the more i think about it unless its a short stack.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

call...it's a friggin turbo and he will show u with A 3 or KQ like always...people panic and you need to gamble in spot like this in the 180's...you will be racing but that is an occupational hazard of playing a turbo

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

[ QUOTE ]
i like a limp given stack size i like a fold as played given stack size.now think if you limped he raises 4 bbyou see a flop for 600 and can double through and hopefully someone else will call pre too building a nice pot .

[/ QUOTE ]
this strategy makes no sense to me, are you assuming hes going to flop a set? limp-calling then folding a Q-9-5 flop when opp is shoving any 2 cards is bad

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

As it is, I'd probably call the shove. However, I think I'm likely to just limp UTG with 88 here.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

This is so std. Call. You're getting 2 to 1, and you're about 1.8 to 1 against a tight/worse case scenario 3-betting range of 99+;AQs+;AQo+.

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

I like a raise to 320 here, fold to a push. Ideally, I'd like to fold out all hands up to the SB or BB, have one of them make a weak call, and then cont. bet the flop without killing my stack too badly. Of course, if I get all unders, I'm cont. bet and praying for a repush. Limping is OK too, but making plays for set value at 25BB from UTG is icky.

Just because you are receiving 2:1 doesn't mean that you want to relinquish a strong resteal stack here at 100/200 by making a call whereas you either flip or you are WB. Pot odds here do not supersede other considerations. With 1010, I raise to 450 and call a push. You can let this one go and feel fine about it.

Barry

Re: 88 UTG in 12/180
 

In a 12/180, I'm calling this push and not thinking too hard about it.