Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t400/t800
(Ante: t75)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t42010
UTG+1: t48855
MP1: t26119
MP2: t9314
MP3: t56020
CO: t8049
Button: t11418
SB: t27947
Hero: t46690

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to t2275</font>, 6 folds, Hero calls t1475 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t4150)</font>.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t5625, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets t2850</font>, Hero calls t2850 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t8475)</font>.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t11325, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets t9000</font>, Hero calls t9000 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t20325)</font>.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t29325, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 is all-in t34655</font>, Hero ?
Uncalled bets: t34655 returned to UTG+1.

Results:
Final pot: t29325

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

if you call the turn shouldn't you be snap calling river

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

95% of the time thats a shove for value hoping u have a 5, gld

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

I'm thinking turn should be a fold. It's just not a board an EP raiser double barrels light on very often.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking turn should be a fold. It's just not a board an EP raiser double barrels light on very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

that compiled with snowman likes to open from EP with s/c type hands to steal the blinds and if he gets called can flop big and it be hidden and rep a high card flop. Almost guarentee he hit hard.

So yeah, fold turn, and against a player like snowman im repoping pre alot here cause of reasons listed above.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

repopping pre is really bad imo, i like folding the turn i think

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

3-betting preflop would be pretty bad here this deep. Your hand has so much value, don't turn it into a bluff. Also, I think this is in the wrong forum.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

I dont' think 3betting is as bad given the read CKING game

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

What was ur plan after flat calling flop for various turn cards?

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

I really dislike 3-bet preflop, and I fold the turn here.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

Why hasn't this post been moved? Is it because it's the mod's girl? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

For one, because I(ZBTHorton) am locked out of my account. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why hasn't this post been moved? Is it because it's the mod's girl? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not MTTc mod so i can't do it. Also i think pre flop 3 bet is quite bad with stacks/positions.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really dislike 3-bet preflop, and I fold the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking turn should be a fold. It's just not a board an EP raiser double barrels light on very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

Maybe I just suck postflop or something, but I really don't think 3-betting preflop against Snowman is as bad as people think.

That said, I don't 3bet preflop.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I just suck postflop or something, but I really don't think 3-betting preflop against Snowman is as bad as people think.

That said, I don't 3bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

Why hasn't a single person said hero call?

His range UTG+1 isn't NEARLY as tight as people think.
Your hand looks like a weak one pair hand.
99.9% of online pros will valuebet smaller here. Almost NOBODY shoves for value here against an unknown.

I don't know obviously if I am hero in the hand it is probably a fold. But if it is Sn000w against an unknown, he could be bluff-shoving a lot here.

Whatever, just stirring things up a bit.

I also don't think 3-betting preflop is bad.
He wouldn't shove an overpair on the river for value (or as a bluff I don't think).

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really dislike 3-bet preflop, and I fold the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft, but if we call the turn im calling this river fo sho

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

he will value shove any strait and 2 pair/set most of the time, particularly against a random who he probably wont believe to be that good a thinking player

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

[ QUOTE ]
95% of the time thats a shove for value hoping u have a 5, gld

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? hoping you have a 5, so then snow would have to have T9 or 59? i dunno about that.

i agree with goggles in that the river shove has gone overlooked. not just the fact that its a much uglier board now for 1 pair hands and less likely for overpairs to jam. but the fact that he shoves all of it makes it a nuts or air situation most of the time. and on this board air is a lot more likely.

also i asked snow about the hand and he mentioned you were on the bubble. i think this is very important for both your pre and postflop decisions.

Re: Tough Tough spot vs Sn0o0wman
 

I'd fold turn but call river. I don't know Snooow very well, but from what I've seen, I doubt he's shoving for value with worse than a set, which means his range is very polarized. Also, maybe he just sucks at bet-sizing, but if he wanted to structure the betting so as to stack you, he could have potted the turn, making a river shove much closer to pot-sized.