borg 20/40
 

not sure if this is right place for this. if nec move to B+M.

i wanted to ask the 20/40 regs in this forum - what is the borg 20/40 like on weekends? is it at all similar to the 10/20?

it is likely that i'll be moving up to this game by the beginning of next year.

Re: borg 20/40
 

I have never played in that game but I really doubt that it matters. The difference in game quality between 10/20 and 20/40 is rarely dramatic and you are almost certainly a significant favorite. Just jump in there and take a shot. Do it soon. If you are underrolled take a 50 bet shot. You will probably be amazed that as you move up the players are still very bad but usually just a little more aggro. Play well.

Re: borg 20/40
 

I dunno, I've noticed a change in skill as I've progressed from 2/4 up to 20/40+.

3/6 people can actually read the board and realize there's a 4-flush out there. They still couldn't figure out there was a 5-way chopped pot on an AKQJT board though and mucked, even though they called the river bet.

6/12 people stopped cold-calling my raises with T7o and occasionally folded their second pairs on the turn.

8/16 people knew what a raise in position for a free card was. They still liked to cold-call raises with A3s though.

20/40 people could do some modicum of hand-reading and could 3-bet preflop with TT/99.

40/80 people stopped cold-calling my raises with KJo.

Re: borg 20/40
 

I find it different -- 2-4 players to the flop rather then 7-8. Almost no unraised pots rather than almost no raised pots. The skill level, though, is not that different. Rather, the game is played differently. Most 10-20 people are there to gamble and have fun. Most 20-40 people are there to win money. So, they are playing better or trying to, to the best of their abilities. The game is beatable but you have to play tighter and more aggressive than in a regular 10-20 Borg game. However, at night (1am +) it usually becomes very like 10-20 only at twice the stakes. Definitely take a shot. You can play both games for a while and them move up when you are completely comfortable.

Re: borg 20/40
 

Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

Re: borg 20/40
 

I don't know about the weekend but on weeknights usually the level of play is way tougher than the 10.

That said, it's still not "tough"

Re: borg 20/40
 

Much different quality of player, you will feel like you moved up. Much more raising and reraising pre flop. 100% continuation bets on the flop from late position players.

You still get a bunch of LAGtards showing up on weekends, except not always. If the LAGtards aren't in, then you are going to be butting heads with a bunch of people that have read all of the two plus two books, and know how to use that info. In that case, I move back down to 10/20, where the majority suck.

Re: borg 20/40
 

I think there is a difference.
Are most of the players bad in both games? Yes Sir.

Granted I almost never make it down there these days, but in my glory days of making it down there most weekends, I remember there being maybe a dozen recognizable faces (out of a HUGE pool) at the 10 game that I prefer not sit down because they knew how to play (not experts, but strong players).
At the 20 game there were more people that I simply knew were better than me and took my cheese.
Whenever I take some time off from poker (like now) I always start back down at the 10 game and it seems way easier than the 20 game... it may have to do with a small roll though.
Good Luck at the 20 game... hot streaks there kick a$$

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

does that mean i suck too bad to play 20?

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

does that mean i suck too bad to play 20?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just mean that the 20 is the first spot where it's worth starting to think about player ranges and will earn/save you BBs in the long run. This obviously happens in lower limits as well, but it's not as useful there where the players are so passive and ranges are so wide.

Re: borg 20/40
 

There was a strictlystrategy thread entitled the same months ago.

The only difference in 20/40 and 10/20 is that 20/40 is more fun because the pots are bigger and the people more interesting/lessnitty.

And that sometimes you will find a bad 20 game when rarely you will find a bad 10 game.

I'll be there this weekend. Look for the kid in glasses who everyone refers to as josh.

Re: borg 20/40
 

jkamowitz likes to prey on 10/20 players who shouldn't be moving up. I can think of no other explanation for his comment.

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I've noticed a change in skill as I've progressed from 2/4 up to 20/40+.

3/6 people can actually read the board and realize there's a 4-flush out there. They still couldn't figure out there was a 5-way chopped pot on an AKQJT board though and mucked, even though they called the river bet.

6/12 people stopped cold-calling my raises with T7o and occasionally folded their second pairs on the turn.

8/16 people knew what a raise in position for a free card was. They still liked to cold-call raises with A3s though.

20/40 started cold-calling my raises with T7o again

40/80 people didn't care if there was a 4-flush on the board anymore and kept betting second pair

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have any particular exercises in mind for doing this?

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have any particular exercises in mind for doing this?

[/ QUOTE ]

easiest way to do this is when you're not in a hand try and put people in the hand on ranges

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have any particular exercises in mind for doing this?

[/ QUOTE ]

easiest way to do this is when you're not in a hand try and put people in the hand on ranges

[/ QUOTE ]

ok cool that's what I do. I was just wondering if anyone else had some other method they used away from the table. I think thebryce's pokerstove tricks are worth playing around with, but I haven't tried them yet for myself, because I am a lazy mofo lately.

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
jkamowitz likes to prey on 10/20 players who shouldn't be moving up. I can think of no other explanation for his comment.

[/ QUOTE ]

when should i be moving up?

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
when should i be moving up?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much money you got?

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jkamowitz likes to prey on 10/20 players who shouldn't be moving up. I can think of no other explanation for his comment.

[/ QUOTE ]

when should i be moving up?

just try it. see how comfortable you are. there are plenty of bad players at the borgata 20/40, but there are more good players. figure your win rate in bb/hr goes down and your variance in $ up a little more than 2x.



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
not sure if this is right place for this. if nec move to B+M.

i wanted to ask the 20/40 regs in this forum - what is the borg 20/40 like on weekends? is it at all similar to the 10/20?

it is likely that i'll be moving up to this game by the beginning of next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to take a shot at 20-40 i would suggest to play at the Taj. That game is just so much better.

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strengthen your hand/board/range reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have any particular exercises in mind for doing this?

[/ QUOTE ]

play 6max online.

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]


If you want to take a shot at 20-40 i would suggest to play at the Taj. That game is just so much better.

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I have been very busy this fall, so I haven't been down to AC since Labor Day. However, the Taj 20-40 games are almost always better than the Borgata 20-40 games. I would say that the difference is that three nits are replaced by three LAGs. My general rule is to check out the Taj first and only head to the Borgata if there are less than 3 20-40 tables running at the Taj and it doesn't look like I'll be seated quickly.

Also, to answer the original question, 20-40 will be a little tougher than 10-20. There will be a couple of better players at the table, and the games will be more aggressive.

Re: borg 20/40
 

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[ QUOTE ]
when should i be moving up?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much money you got?

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br is in the mid 30K range

dont play for a living obv

Re: borg 20/40
 

You should be there now IMO.

Re: borg 20/40
 

bankroll wise you should be there at 3k. Key to moving up is to run good. oggogogoogogogo no bankroll management.

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
bankroll wise you should be there at 3k. Key to moving up is to run good. oggogogoogogogo no bankroll management.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can drop 4K in a bad weekend at 20-40. No way is 3k sufficient. I think an 8-10K bankroll should be ok.

Re: borg 20/40
 

Not when you're a hudge luckbox like me. gogogogoogog

btw it's pretty obvious im leveling/not being serious.

leveled yo.

Re: borg 20/40
 

I play the Borgata’s $20/$40 every weekend and will move to the $10/$20 a few Sat’ nights a month if a few of my friends are in the game just to play with them. I know both games.

Of course the $20/$40 games are tougher. There are a few less fish and a couple more tags at each table. There is poorer game selection, as there are fewer tables. But moving up, getting better, and earning a bigger hourly rate seems to be our goal.

If you built a 30k bankroll from playing $10/$20 then I would think you are ready to start playing.

Start sitting in the $20 when the game is good and move back to the $10 when it isn’t.. I hate the term "take a shot" cause it sounds like you aren't ready to move up but you want to get lucky and run. Mix it up till you are 100% comfortable with the bigger game.

If you can consistently beat the $10 and have built that bankroll playing, I think you are ready and it will force you to learn to beat the $20 as you did the $10.

Penni

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play the Borgata’s $20/$40 every weekend and will move to the $10/$20 a few Sat’ nights a month if a few of my friends are in the game just to play with them. I know both games.

Of course the $20/$40 games are tougher. There are a few less fish and a couple more tags at each table. There is poorer game selection, as there are fewer tables. But moving up, getting better, and earning a bigger hourly rate seems to be our goal.

If you built a 30k bankroll from playing $10/$20 then I would think you are ready to start playing.

Start sitting in the $20 when the game is good and move back to the $10 when it isn’t.. I hate the term "take a shot" cause it sounds like you aren't ready to move up but you want to get lucky and run. Mix it up till you are 100% comfortable with the bigger game.

If you can consistently beat the $10 and have built that bankroll playing, I think you are ready and it will force you to learn to beat the $20 as you did the $10.

Penni

[/ QUOTE ]

if this is the penni that i met at the borg with grease (adam) over dinner - nice to meet you.

Re: borg 20/40
 

Yes, it is. Thank you.

From what I hear, you should start to make the move. I love your $10/20 bankroll.

Re: borg 20/40
 

Penni,
So how much of a variance increase would you expect to see as one makes the move up?
Glad to see you here!

Spencer

Re: borg 20/40
 

[ QUOTE ]

20/40 started cold-calling my raises with T7o again


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Yeah, but at 20/40 this is called "using your position."

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40/80 people didn't care if there was a 4-flush on the board anymore and kept betting second pair

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At 40/80 that's called "value-betting."

Re: borg 20/40
 

Not sure if it will hold for an east coast game, this is the thing that I initially did wrong when moving up from 8/16 to the 20/40 game at Casino AZ, and had to move back down right away and take another 2 months before I made the jump for good....

My first attempt at moving up, I played much too aggressively. I was raising almost every hand in CO/Button if folded to me, and would never give up on a bluff unless raised on a street. I was trying way too hard to outplay everyone. I went back down to 8/16, played my game, and realized my aggressive mistake. I have sense gone back up, stopped trying to win every pot that looks available, and feel comfortable in that game regardless of the lineup.

Good luck!

Re: borg 20/40
 

Hi Spencer,

Thanks. I am a tpt reader but not much of a poster (sadly not a giver but a taker.. I am trying to change that) as I don’t have much time at home between my AC trips.

Your variance change is going to depend mostly on how well you play and your playing style.

I played $20/$40 in late 2005 and early 2006 but I was so tight weak I’d be embarrassed to admit my hourly rate. I was not very good either but was able to just beat the game with little variance.


If you remember, I dropped down to $10/20 for most of the last half of 2006 to learn to play better.

There is a slightly higher variance in my game now but my bankroll can handle it and so can my improved game.

I also think how comfortable you feel in new level can have a slight affect on your variance.

Sooooo.. to keep variance at a manageable level when you move up be sure you play well enough .. taggy. Make sure you have the proper bankroll.

Penni