Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Here is an article that shows how much the military in the USA has changed over the last 50 years.

It is unfortunately apparent, not only in the military. From posts on these forums, speeches by politicians and business leaders from the USA, it is apparent that the cancer is spreading.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Calm down Midge. The number of atheists/agnostics doubled from the time of the 1990 census to the 2000 census. Relgiousness isn't spreading.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

You know who I hate? George Bush. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You guys may not be smart enough to figure out why, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] either that or you're to homophobic and racist to know any better but he's such a standard American it makes me sick. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know who I hate? George Bush. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You guys may not be smart enough to figure out why, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] either that or you're to homophobic and racist to know any better but he's such a standard American it makes me sick. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I may be missing the point but neither my post, nor the 3 pages long article I linked to mentioned the presidency of the USA or George Bush.

Of course, and thanks for triggering my memory, I seem to remember that the dude said something a while ago as being on a mission from god (or close to it), plagiarizing the Blues bros famous line.

Ah! And yes, I surely think of Bush and its supporters as a form of cancer!

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

It's pretty ignorant of you to say that Christianity is the cancer. I don't know that many Christians, but the ones I do know all think Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are/were complete assbags and an embarrassment.

The problem is that real Christians are too nice and don't like to say bad things about people. So the fundamentalist freaks are only criticised by athiests, which just gives them more motivation to spread their nonsense and play the oppressed victim card.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Ron,

as I understand it the evangelicals are one of the biggest and fastest growing denominations in the USA. They may consider Falwell and Robertson an embarrassment, but the differences are really presentational, not doctrinal.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Excellent link.

In a 1st: I agree with Migde on this issue. In 13 yrs as a Naval Officer, I saw a steady increase in Christian/religios zealotry.

EXs:

1) I was legally separated, from my then wife, just prior to a 9mo carrier battle group deployment as a Sub Liason Officer on DESRON Staff. When we pulled into Perth, Austrailia, I met an awesome woman who I ended up spending most of a week with. A LCDR ( I was a LT) on the staff actually gave me a private ranting anout how I was committing adultery, and could be charged under the UCMJ. I laghed and reminded him I was legally separated and e kept telling me it didn't matter since I was stll married. Luckily, Before I could get in trouble with a sharpish reply, the CSO (Chief Staff Officer), a CDR, happened along, and not hearing our conversation, punched me on the shoulder, with a big grin, and said, "Hey! I saw that hot mama you were with last night. Did ye feck er?" That ended the LCDRs little preaching and judging mission.

2) Missile Submarines in The US Navy, which are exclusively male crewed, have a tradition going back to the 60s, that near the end of a deployment, pictures of women are posted on the each missile tube correpsonding with the number of days left until RTP, return to port.

On my last SSBN deployment, around day 19 prior to RTP, I was returning from a watch in the engineroom and I noticed that all the pix had been taken down. That night, at dinner in the wardroom, I asked the table if anyone kenw where the pix had gone. The Executive Officer responded, "Some members of the crew, including myself, found them offensive, so I ordered them removed."

I lauged and said, "C'mon, XO! They were SI swimsuit pix, not a midget fecking a donkey or anything even remotely pornographic!

His response was a curt, "They were offensive, I had them removed, and that is all!"

Now with the whole wardroom watching, and me not known for biting my tongue, I posed a followup question. I asked, "So, XO. You're telling me the pictures of the clothed (in bikinis), beautiful women are offensive, but the missiles tubes on which they are placed, which house up to 10 warheads each, which each are capable of vaporizing over 1 million people instantly are NOT offensive?"

He rapidly replied with, "Mr XXXXX, you have a negative attitude towards nuclear weapons!"

I said, "You're gawdamn right I have a negative attitude towards nuclear weapons! Do you have a positve attitude towards them?"

Before we could heat up any more (and I could get myself in trouble) The CAPT broke in with laughter at the irony on the XOs position and changed the sbject, in a way which made it clear he didn't wan't the argument to proceed any further. The CAPT later told me that he agreed with me but had to acede to the wishes of crewmembers who claimed to be offended.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

many, many Christians believe their faith is incompatible with military service, but they tend not to mix politics and religion as much.

You need the two mixed together to really [censored] things up, and we are well on our way.

RB

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Evil America...Tell it to the 1,000,000,000 people that would move here TOMORROW if we facilitated it. FYI - you're not welcome.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Rich Christians who want power and the means to change things are the problem, not the religion.

Few things annoy me more than the abortion issue and the gay rights issue being used to give "Christians" political power. Both of these issues are such a waste of time. Abortion is not going away and only a handful of states would make gay marriage illegal, deal with it. Now please go out and take up an issue that matters.

Just my opinion, obviously many disagree with me on these issues.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty ignorant of you to say that Christianity is the cancer. I don't know that many Christians, but the ones I do know all think Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are/were complete assbags and an embarrassment.

The problem is that real Christians are too nice and don't like to say bad things about people. So the fundamentalist freaks are only criticised by athiests, which just gives them more motivation to spread their nonsense and play the oppressed victim card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd take a step back and say that organized religion is the cancer. Specificlly, fundamentalism/evangelicalism. Whether it be Christians, Jews, or Muslims. It's not good enough to simply say that those fringe fanatics don't make up the majority. The simple truth is that they make the most noise thus do the most damage to your religion's image.

I constantly hear cries from the media and governments to not condemn all Islam for the actions of the few who carry out barbarous acts in the name of Allah. To a great extent that doesn't fly with me. Until mainstream Muslims worldwide, and their Imans make it a priority to publicly condemn the violent extremists just as loudly as they condemn The US's role in disturbing them, they DO have to accept some part of the responsibility for the actions of the extremists.

The same goes for evangelical/fundamentalist/extremist Christians. Until the large core of moderate Christians loudly and publicly condemns these fringe members they must shoulder some responsibility for their actions and words.

If you let someone hijack your religion without resistance, why should you be surprised when others paint you with the same brush as the unchecked extremists who claim to represent you? (And, yes! This applies to governments, including the US, as well)

In the words of Sir Thomas More, "Silence equals assent."

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rich Christians who want power and the means to change things are the problem, not the religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Change Christians/religion in the above to Democrats/party and assess the sentence.

Thought so.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Evil America...Tell it to the 1,000,000,000 people that would move here TOMORROW if we facilitated it. FYI - you're not welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI, I have NO reason to say you would NOT to be welcomed here, that I know of, although I suspect the majority of us would not look too kindly on your trying to enforce some restriction on freedom of speech!

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Well MidGe, Blackwater in no way forces religion on you.

Another mark of superiority imo.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know who I hate? George Bush. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You guys may not be smart enough to figure out why, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] either that or you're to homophobic and racist to know any better but he's such a standard American it makes me sick. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
10/10

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well MidGe, Blackwater in no way forces religion on you.

Another mark of superiority imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should read the link. around page 2 or 3, the COO and founders of Blacwater are both mentined wrt Evangelical links.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well MidGe, Blackwater in no way forces religion on you.

Another mark of superiority imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should read the link. around page 2 or 3, the COO and founders of Blacwater are both mentined wrt Evangelical links.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, Blackwater does not force security agents to accept religious material. People who run businesses still have a right to have links with whatever religious leaders they so desire.

Also, these stories are really hilarious when they fall into the hands of those who really don't understand the US military setup in general.

This is a military Academy. This is not "the military."

Furthermore, I would advise his son to ditch the academy concept, enlist in the Air Force, go through basic, and accomplish the same goal in a shorter time span.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]


Also, these stories are really hilarious when they fall into the hands of those who really don't understand the US military setup in general.



Furthermore, I would advise his son to ditch the academy concept, enlist in the Air Force, go through basic, and accomplish the same goal in a shorter time span.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
This is a military Academy. This is not "the military."

[/ QUOTE ]
Specifically this is NOT true. The USAFA and it's cadets are directly administered and funded by The USAF as a part of it's training programs.
The officers are active duty memers and the cadets are as well.


OK. I have a very firm unstanding of the US Military and the Military Academy system. If even half the BS the author talks about in the article happens at the USAF Academy, it is well well well out of order.

Preaching religion in a captive academy system is ridiculous. Plain and simple. This is attempting indoctrination of the AF's future leaders not as good leaders or fighters, or managers or Americans but as Religious believers. Screw that!

Im not positive of the AF's officer accesions numbers but I'm pretty sure the majoirty of the career officers (serve past initial 5 yr comittment) are going to be made up of USAFA graduates. Trying to evangilize them early to assure the future of the force is run by a specific flavour of religious belief seems pretty UN-American to me.

Separation of church and state YO!

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Also, these stories are really hilarious when they fall into the hands of those who really don't understand the US military setup in general.

This is a military Academy. This is not "the military."

Furthermore, I would advise his son to ditch the academy concept, enlist in the Air Force, go through basic, and accomplish the same goal in a shorter time span.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. I have a very firm unstanding of the US Military and the Military Academy system. If even half the BS the author talks about in the article happens at the USAF Academy, it is well well well out of order.

Preaching religion in a captive academy system is ridiculous. Plain and simple. This is attempting indoctrination of the AF's future leaders not as good leaders or fighters, or managers or Americans but as Religious believers. Screw that!

Im not positive of the AF's officer accesions numbers but I'm pretty sure the majoirty of the career officers (serve past initial 5 yr comittment) are going to be made up of USAFA graduates. Trying to evangilize them early to assure the future of the force is run by a specific flavour of religious belief seems pretty UN-American to me.

Separation of church and state YO!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. I was just making a point to MidGe, then you jumped in making a point that was utterly ridiculous, so I had to correct it.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. I was just making a point to MidGe, then you jumped in making a point that was utterly ridiculous, so I had to correct it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Blackwater point was ridiculous? hmmmmmm. I disagree.

I agree that Blackwater is not going to try and evangilize veteran SPECOPS operators. Twould most likely be wasted effort and PISS off these very serious dudes for preaching to them. BUT, I tink it's fair to discuss how Blackwater's overall mission/vision can be/is affected by it's owner/manager's religious affilation/activity.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Bring this crap to SMP. I avoid that forum like the plague so as to not have to deal with atheist circle jerks.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. I was just making a point to MidGe, then you jumped in making a point that was utterly ridiculous, so I had to correct it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Blackwater point was ridiculous? hmmmmmm. I disagree.

I agree that Blackwater is not going to try and evangilize veteran SPECOPS operators. Twould most likely be wasted effort and PISS off these very serious dudes for preaching to them. BUT, I tink it's fair to discuss how Blackwater's overall mission/vision can be/is affected by it's owner/manager's religious affilation/activity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, thats very simple.

- Blackwaters mission is to make money.

- Blackwater makes money only one way: They complete the mission.

Pretty clear. This type of nonsense drives me crazy, I'm not religious, but I'm also not so closed minded and insane that I honestly believe that a man cannot successfully run a business and hold religious faith at the same time.

To assume he can't, or furthermore, doesn't have a right to, is pure lunacy.

I'm in the small minority of people on this board who believe that any correlation between atheism and higher intelligence is a myth, and that they are believed only because they cannot be disproven, but also cannot be proven either.

If I'm not mistaken, thats the atheist using religious tricks while claiming not to be religious.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm in the small minority of people on this board who believe that any correlation between atheism and higher intelligence is a myth, and that they are believed only because they cannot be disproven, but also cannot be proven either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um if you look in the thread in SMP you should find links to a ton of papers supporting the correlation. Or just google it. It can certainly be demonstrated one way or another once you've decided on a definition of 'intelligence'.

Not that it's really an important point to begin with.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here is an article that shows how much the military in the USA has changed over the last 50 years.

It is unfortunately apparent, not only in the military. From posts on these forums, speeches by politicians and business leaders from the USA, it is apparent that the cancer is spreading.

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] non sequitur
[ ] attack on bush
[ ] irritating smiley
[x] lol america sucks
[x] you're all racist hicks!

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm in the small minority of people on this board who believe that any correlation between atheism and higher intelligence is a myth, and that they are believed only because they cannot be disproven, but also cannot be proven either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um if you look in the thread in SMP you should find links to a ton of papers supporting the correlation. Or just google it. It can certainly be demonstrated one way or another once you've decided on a definition of 'intelligence'.

Not that it's really an important point to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad you realized that after taking time to type that post. So, any opinions on the topic at hand, which would be Blackwater's ability to complete the mission, totally in spite of some of it's execs deciding to spend Sunday mornings in church?

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. I was just making a point to MidGe, then you jumped in making a point that was utterly ridiculous, so I had to correct it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Blackwater point was ridiculous? hmmmmmm. I disagree.

I agree that Blackwater is not going to try and evangilize veteran SPECOPS operators. Twould most likely be wasted effort and PISS off these very serious dudes for preaching to them. BUT, I tink it's fair to discuss how Blackwater's overall mission/vision can be/is affected by it's owner/manager's religious affilation/activity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, thats very simple.

- Blackwaters mission is to make money.

- Blackwater makes money only one way: They complete the mission.

Pretty clear. This type of nonsense drives me crazy, I'm not religious, but I'm also not so closed minded and insane that I honestly believe that a man cannot successfully run a business and hold religious faith at the same time.

To assume he can't, or furthermore, doesn't have a right to, is pure lunacy.

I'm in the small minority of people on this board who believe that any correlation between atheism and higher intelligence is a myth, and that they are believed only because they cannot be disproven, but also cannot be proven either.

If I'm not mistaken, thats the atheist using religious tricks while claiming not to be religious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll start by assuming you're NOT directly reffering to me as insane or a lunatic, but speaking, more in a general sense.

That bit of unpleasantness aside, I'll say that I'm neither an atheist nor am I closed minded. Nor have I ever argued about correlations atween atheism and intelligence.

I wouldn't care whether Eric Prince was an Evangilical Christian or worshipped toad skins found only in the Lousiana Bayous if he were running a shoe manufacturing buisness or some other such non controversial venture. But he isn't running a shoe buisness, he is running a security firm which uses SPECOPS trained personell to carry out missions, often involving violent combat, in the middle of one of the most controversial hotspots on the planet.

His background and beliefs require far greater scrutiny running this enterprise because it's far more important. Do you not agree?

Much like Blackwater itself has a long laundry list of RQMTS for its contractors (which go beyond mere TRNG/experience) those running the shop also have to meet a higher standard.

I haven't researched into Eric Prince's religious affiliations, so I don't where they go or don't go, but I certainly believe they deserve scrutiny much like other positions of public import.

Would you think it was relevant if he was bought out by a Muslim with potential ties to Extremism?

Would you think it was relevant if an Iranian Security firm comprised of mainly former Iranian Republican Guards and SPETSNAZ operators, headed by a buisnessman with ties to a radical madrassa offered a competing service?

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now with the whole wardroom watching, and me not known for biting my tongue, I posed a followup question. I asked, "So, XO. You're telling me the pictures of the clothed (in bikinis), beautiful women are offensive, but the missiles tubes on which they are placed, which house up to 10 warheads each, which each are capable of vaporizing over 1 million people instantly are NOT offensive?"


[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now:
"We train young men to drop fire on people, but they cannot write [censored] on their aeroplane, because....It's Obscene."

[ QUOTE ]
He rapidly replied with, "Mr XXXXX, you have a negative attitude towards nuclear weapons!"

I said, "You're gawdamn right I have a negative attitude towards nuclear weapons! Do you have a positve attitude towards them?"

Before we could heat up any more (and I could get myself in trouble) The CAPT broke in with laughter at the irony on the XOs position and changed the sbject, in a way which made it clear he didn't wan't the argument to proceed any further. The CAPT later told me that he agreed with me but had to acede to the wishes of crewmembers who claimed to be offended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironically, we had a Captain who I nicknamed "psycho." I'd say he had a positive attitude toward nuclear weapons. I thought he was an exception in my experience. However, I have discovered that individuals who share many similarities with him are in fact common in the American landscape. The military is like society on a shorter, finer scale.

I don't really have time to go into all the psychology I have studied about the subject in the intervening years, but I will say I think the hypocritical behavior that can be observed on the part of many who profess devotion to their faith is in fact rooted in a set of contradictory beliefs. They are behaving perfectly in accordance with the cognitive dissonance taught to them as dogma.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Dbl,

I'm sure I'm not competent to judge Blackwater's competence.

My only thoughts are that, under the current administration, it seems that people with an evangelical background have been employed and promoted beyond normal expectation. Blackwater's founders may be beneficiaries of this trend, though innocent ones I'm sure.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you think it was relevant if he was bought out by a Muslim with potential ties to Extremism?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but only because of the words "ties to Extremism".


[ QUOTE ]
Would you think it was relevant if an Iranian Security firm comprised of mainly former Iranian Republican Guards and SPETSNAZ operators, headed by a buisnessman with ties to a radical madrassa offered a competing service?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but because of the word "radical".

The thing is, most Muslims (and Christians) in the world are peaceful people, who make rational decisions. I wouldn't want one of the 1%ers from ANY religion running a company such as Blackwater.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now:
"We train young men to drop fire on people, but they cannot write [censored] on their aeroplane, because....It's Obscene."

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, I had self contelplative Apocalypse Now moment right before I left the Navy. As I was doing one of my last Dirty CT jobs in Europe, I heard Martin Sheen's line run through my head.

"They were going to make me a major for this (LCDR in my case) and I wasn't even in their f**king army (navy in my case) anymore!"

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is an article that shows how much the military in the USA has changed over the last 50 years.

It is unfortunately apparent, not only in the military. From posts on these forums, speeches by politicians and business leaders from the USA, it is apparent that the cancer is spreading.

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] non sequitur
[ ] attack on bush
[ ] irritating smiley
[x] lol america sucks
[x] you're all racist hicks!
[x] condescending tone

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is an article that shows how much the military in the USA has changed over the last 50 years.

It is unfortunately apparent, not only in the military. From posts on these forums, speeches by politicians and business leaders from the USA, it is apparent that the cancer is spreading.

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] non sequitur
[ ] attack on bush
[ ] irritating smiley
[x] lol america sucks
[x] you're all racist hicks!
[x] condescending tone
[x] Shame on you, Air Force!

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know who I hate? George Bush. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You guys may not be smart enough to figure out why, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] either that or you're to homophobic and racist to know any better but he's such a standard American it makes me sick. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
10/10

[/ QUOTE ]

He missed a couple exclamation points. 9/10 imo.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly enough, I had self contelplative Apocalypse Now moment right before I left the Navy. As I was doing one of my last Dirty CT jobs in Europe, I heard Martin Sheen's line run through my head.

"They were going to make me a major for this (LCDR in my case) and I wasn't even in their f**king army (navy in my case) anymore!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the important contributions you've made in this thread, especially considering the power wielded by the US Air Force and the Navy's SSBMs.

~ Rick

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Separation of church and state YO!


[/ QUOTE ]

No such thing. Check it out, 1st amendment.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Excellent link.

In a 1st: I agree with Migde on this issue. In 13 yrs as a Naval Officer, I saw a steady increase in Christian/religios zealotry.

EXs:

1) I was legally separated, from my then wife, just prior to a 9mo carrier battle group deployment as a Sub Liason Officer on DESRON Staff. When we pulled into Perth, Austrailia, I met an awesome woman who I ended up spending most of a week with. A LCDR ( I was a LT) on the staff actually gave me a private ranting anout how I was committing adultery, and could be charged under the UCMJ. I laghed and reminded him I was legally separated and e kept telling me it didn't matter since I was stll married. Luckily, Before I could get in trouble with a sharpish reply, the CSO (Chief Staff Officer), a CDR, happened along, and not hearing our conversation, punched me on the shoulder, with a big grin, and said, "Hey! I saw that hot mama you were with last night. Did ye feck er?" That ended the LCDRs little preaching and judging mission.

2) Missile Submarines in The US Navy, which are exclusively male crewed, have a tradition going back to the 60s, that near the end of a deployment, pictures of women are posted on the each missile tube correpsonding with the number of days left until RTP, return to port.

On my last SSBN deployment, around day 19 prior to RTP, I was returning from a watch in the engineroom and I noticed that all the pix had been taken down. That night, at dinner in the wardroom, I asked the table if anyone kenw where the pix had gone. The Executive Officer responded, "Some members of the crew, including myself, found them offensive, so I ordered them removed."

I lauged and said, "C'mon, XO! They were SI swimsuit pix, not a midget fecking a donkey or anything even remotely pornographic!

His response was a curt, "They were offensive, I had them removed, and that is all!"

Now with the whole wardroom watching, and me not known for biting my tongue, I posed a followup question. I asked, "So, XO. You're telling me the pictures of the clothed (in bikinis), beautiful women are offensive, but the missiles tubes on which they are placed, which house up to 10 warheads each, which each are capable of vaporizing over 1 million people instantly are NOT offensive?"

He rapidly replied with, "Mr XXXXX, you have a negative attitude towards nuclear weapons!"

I said, "You're gawdamn right I have a negative attitude towards nuclear weapons! Do you have a positve attitude towards them?"

Before we could heat up any more (and I could get myself in trouble) The CAPT broke in with laughter at the irony on the XOs position and changed the sbject, in a way which made it clear he didn't wan't the argument to proceed any further. The CAPT later told me that he agreed with me but had to acede to the wishes of crewmembers who claimed to be offended.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do any of those things indicated an increase in religious zealotry in the Navy? I've been a Naval Flight Officer for almost 10 years now and I have seen no indication of this. Although I know of incidents like the one you mentioned, the SI photo one in particular, it has much more to do with the political correctness that has taken hold in the military than with any religious zealotry.

As for the original article, it in no way follows that religious zealotry at USAFA = religious zealotry in the Air Force (or military as a whole).

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here is an article that shows how much the military in the USA has changed over the last 50 years.

It is unfortunately apparent, not only in the military. From posts on these forums, speeches by politicians and business leaders from the USA, it is apparent that the cancer is spreading.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has more to do with the United States Government using something (religion in this case) as a propoganda tool rather than what it is meant to be used as. Just like Prez Bush used his "Fear the Terrorists & Be Patriot" speeches.

The United States Government has obvious concluded that if Americans can stomach religious leader molesting young children, stealing their monies, and continue to follow their faith, then they can use religion as a tool also. Whatever gets the sheep to follow.

That is how Mr. Bush has managed to to accumulate more national debt than all the other presidents before him combined, without a revolt from American citizens and a demand for his impeachment.

It's called propoganda.

I've said it before. You've got 5 gigantic corporations controlling 80% of the media. But the mushroom cloud started with the creation of the Federal Reserve.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

[ QUOTE ]

How do any of those things indicated an increase in religious zealotry in the Navy? I've been a Naval Flight Officer for almost 10 years now and I have seen no indication of this. Although I know of incidents like the one you mentioned, the SI photo one in particular, it has much more to do with the political correctness that has taken hold in the military than with any religious zealotry.

[/ QUOTE ]

NFO? Well OBV you aviators wouldn't notice the religious folks, cus you're all convinced that YOU are GOD! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Unavoidable bubblehead to flyboy barbs aside:
The LCDR who was busting my balls over the woman in Australia was a born again Christian who was attempting to force his own religious beliefs upon me by using his poor understanding of the UCMJ.

The SI swimsuit pix issue was brought to a head by the new XO, an evangelical, and an EM1, a devout mormon for wholly personal religious reasons vice worries about PCness.

These were just 2 examples. I have numerous stories, most seen in the surface and aviation communities. I didn't see a whole lot of the preaching BS on subs or SPECOPs for the simple reason that neither community really has time for the BS. As we both know, SURF ships, esp Carriers, have tons of room to carry marginally contributing sailors. To a lesser extent, in my experience, some air squadrons also carry a little loose change in their support personell.

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As for the original article, it in no way follows that religious zealotry at USAFA = religious zealotry in the Air Force (or military as a whole).

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I disagree wholeheartedly. The USAFA, UNA, and USMA are the core training points for the future of each of the service's officer corps. The numbers in the Officer food chain end up with a significant %(% much greater than the entry accesions %) of the CDR/LTCOL and above officers in each service being academy graduates. Attempting to indoctrinate them religiously whilst they are captive for 4 years is both wrong and longterm damaging to the force.

On a different note, what flavour NFO are you, fast mover, fixed wing, or you actually work for a living [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img], rotary wing?

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

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NFO? Well OBV you aviators wouldn't notice the religious folks, cus you're all convinced that YOU are GOD!

Unavoidable bubblehead to flyboy barbs aside:
The LCDR who was busting my balls over the woman in Australia was a born again Christian who was attempting to force his own religious beliefs upon me by using his poor understanding of the UCMJ.

The SI swimsuit pix issue was brought to a head by the new XO, an evangelical, and an EM1, a devout mormon for wholly personal religious reasons vice worries about PCness.

These were just 2 examples. I have numerous stories, most seen in the surface and aviation communities. I didn't see a whole lot of the preaching BS on subs or SPECOPs for the simple reason that neither community really has time for the BS. As we both know, SURF ships, esp Carriers, have tons of room to carry marginally contributing sailors. To a lesser extent, in my experience, some air squadrons also carry a little loose change in their support personell.

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Just because there were individuals who tried to force their beliefs on you in whatever fashion does not mean there is a systematic "religionization" of the military. Again, I've been doing this carrier aviation thing for almost ten years now and I can think of one person that was noticeable in his religious beliefs. He was the CO of the one of the Hornet squadrons in m Air Wing and about the pushiest he got was organizing a weekly Bible study class for officers. I cant speak for any other warfare community but I can assure there is very little of what you are talking about going on in Naval Aviation.

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I disagree wholeheartedly. The USAFA, UNA, and USMA are the core training points for the future of each of the service's officer corps. The numbers in the Officer food chain end up with a significant %(% much greater than the entry accesions %) of the CDR/LTCOL and above officers in each service being academy graduates. Attempting to indoctrinate them religiously whilst they are captive for 4 years is both wrong and longterm damaging to the force.

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I agree that (should it be true) what is going on at USAFA is wrong. During my 4 years at USNA I never saw anything of the sort. But it still doesn't indicate that this is a military wide or even Air Force wide problem.

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On a different note, what flavour NFO are you, fast mover, fixed wing, or you actually work for a living , rotary wing?

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In case you didnt figure it out, fast movers. EA-6Bs to be exact.

Re: Christianity, the cancer within the US culture.
 

Fair nuff.

My concerns were that if the USAFA stuff is as reported and goes unchecked it will result in a future religionization of the AF Officer corps.



EA-6B? Ok, it's as close to working for a living as any of the fast movers. At least you guys can spend more than 10mins on station w/o whining for more fuel like F-18 drivers. (Spent far too many a TAO watch in CIC on teh carrier dealing with prima donna hornet drivers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Though tis quite a bit of fun when they find out their alert launches originated with some pasty white dood wearing dolphins. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])