my cards get mucked, standard?
 

So last night im playing at this game, more like a club than a home game. First the table is one of those with the wood around the rim for chip stacks. I hate putting my cards on that cause its so hard to lift them up to look at them so i keep them out front on the felt. Im utg and make a raise. There are like 4 callers and then the bb mucks. when he does he throws them into my cards. The dealer says that my hand is mucked. Im kinda shocked as i had kk and never had this happen to me before.

I just decided to let it go as most of the players agreed that my hand was mucked and i needed to keep a chip on top or place them closer to me. Is this standard?

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So last night im playing at this game, more like a club than a home game. First the table is one of those with the wood around the rim for chip stacks. I hate putting my cards on that cause its so hard to lift them up to look at them so i keep them out front on the felt. Im utg and make a raise. There are like 4 callers and then the bb mucks. when he does he throws them into my cards. The dealer says that my hand is mucked. Im kinda shocked as i had kk and never had this happen to me before.

I just decided to let it go as most of the players agreed that my hand was mucked and i needed to keep a chip on top or place them closer to me. Is this standard?

[/ QUOTE ]


Thats standard and correct assuming that the cards were mixed. Some People think merely touching is enough to kill a hand, but if there is no risk of confusion as to which cards belonged to who there is no reason for a hand to be killed.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

absolutely not. I would be so frikking pissed if they try this [censored] on me that I would leave and never come back to that [censored]. If you start a big debate on how you want to stay in the hand you reveal the strength of your had wich is bad anyway, so you losing so much money just because some idiot can't trow his hand away properly would never have to mean youd hand is mucked

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

Use a card cover. It is your responsibility to protect your cards. While many times the mucked cards can be separated, you don't want to rely on that.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

Even with a card protector, if someone slides his cards into yours, they can still be mixed up.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

Okay, so, even if they can get mixed up, it's much less likely. I may get crushed by a falling piano, but I'm still going to wear a seatbelt.

Unless the cards were easily identifiable from the backs of them, the hand is dead. It's unfortunate, but reality. And in some places, even if you can tell which is which, still a dead hand. This happens by mistake all the time.

Rule #1 is Protect Your Hand. This manifests in many ways, but putting a chip on them to protect them is top among them.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

I think it is standard, but also the BB should be at the least severely warned. If he ever does anything like this again (not just the same night, but any night), he should be punished, up to being banned from the game.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is standard, but also the BB should be at the least severely warned. If he ever does anything like this again (not just the same night, but any night), he should be punished, up to being banned from the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you assuming this was intentional, because I sort of assumed it was an accident.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

i was dealing (and playing) at a poker tourney yesterday when 2 players went to the flop and i was gathering all folded hands. i accidently collected one active players cards and he pointed this out to me. i decided the best course of action was for him to whisper me his cards ( he is good player therefore can remember the suit(s):) ) and he whispered AdQd ( which bore no relevence to the flop)and in the pile of folded cards AdQd were next to eachother. so i gave him them. everyone seemed happy with the way it was handled but i wasnt sure if it was the "correct" way. ruling plz?

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i was dealing (and playing) at a poker tourney yesterday when 2 players went to the flop and i was gathering all folded hands. i accidently collected one active players cards and he pointed this out to me. i decided the best course of action was for him to whisper me his cards ( he is good player therefore can remember the suit(s):) ) and he whispered AdQd ( which bore no relevence to the flop)and in the pile of folded cards AdQd were next to eachother. so i gave him them. everyone seemed happy with the way it was handled but i wasnt sure if it was the "correct" way. ruling plz?

[/ QUOTE ]

While I like to see an effort made to not accidently kill hands, there is a problem with your method. Another player may have legitimate concenrs about whether you and the player with the mucked hand are cheating.

imagine you are in the game when this happens and lets suppose you don't all know each other that well. Maybe you don't even like the dealaer. Now you get into a big hand with the a player, the dealer sweeps up his cards, he whispers to the dealer the dealer looks threw the muck and gives the player two cards. they turn out to be a monster (but they are also cards that most people would not have called your preflop raise with) -- might it go though your mind that they were working together?

If you are going to do this sort of thing I at least recommend that the player write down his cards, so that after the hand you can at least eliminate the possibility that the dealer simply picked out the best two from the muck.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
O

Rule #1 is Protect Your Hand. This manifests in many ways, but putting a chip on them to protect them is top among them.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, the best way to protect your hand, and what i do until all preflop betting is complete, is to keep your hand on your cards. whether it be three fingers on the felt in front of the cards and my thumb behind it ... or my fingers over half of my card (allowing the table to see i have cards).

this has been my practice ever since i had a hand killed in a similar way that OP describes. when the action gets to me i can quickly check my hand... then i put a chip on top of my cards if i choose not to muck.

the highest probability of your hand being hit by mucked cards is during the preflop round of betting.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i was dealing (and playing) at a poker tourney yesterday when 2 players went to the flop and i was gathering all folded hands. i accidently collected one active players cards and he pointed this out to me. i decided the best course of action was for him to whisper me his cards ( he is good player therefore can remember the suit(s):) ) and he whispered AdQd ( which bore no relevence to the flop)and in the pile of folded cards AdQd were next to eachother. so i gave him them. everyone seemed happy with the way it was handled but i wasnt sure if it was the "correct" way. ruling plz?

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

no it was not.

unfortunately, once the dealer mucks a hand, there is nothing that can be done to retrieve it. at the games i have dealt ... the mucked hand has his preflop bet returned to him. i've never seen it happen on later streets so i don't know what (if any) chips should be returned to the player.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

After thinking about it some more i realize this was really the only course of action to be taken. I was in the ten seat for the first time at a table like this(with the wooden panel around the edge) so i really wasnt aware of how easy it would be for it to happen. BB had no intention of doing it and felt pretty bad so i didnt care at all, it was a simple accident. I learned my lesson and will be better at protecting my cards now.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is standard, but also the BB should be at the least severely warned. If he ever does anything like this again (not just the same night, but any night), he should be punished, up to being banned from the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you assuming this was intentional, because I sort of assumed it was an accident.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was assuming it was not really intentional, but done by a dumbass who is acting recklessly, affecting other people's money. It is pretty tough to much someone else's cards with your own unless you are really being stupid.

I don't think drunk drivers kill people intentionally either, but I still think they should be severely punished (almost to the extent that a murderer is).

Rob

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

+1 to all who said to use a card cover, usually a chip. The local B&M dealers will hound you until you start using one because they hate to have to muck someone's cards, but that is the rule, so if you want to run a tight game, or play in a tightly run game, cover your card, or be ready to surrender your cowboys.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

Generally standard. Muck-tosser should be warned (but since your later reply said it wasn't intentional, make it mild) and you definately need to protect your cards better.

I got mucked out of a tourney, 3 spots from the money, after re-raising and going all-in... in a B&M casino.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i decided the best course of action was for him to whisper me his cards ( he is good player therefore can remember the suit(s):) ) and he whispered AdQd ( which bore no relevence to the flop)and in the pile of folded cards AdQd were next to eachother. so i gave him them. everyone seemed happy with the way it was handled but i wasnt sure if it was the "correct" way. ruling plz?

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

no it was not.

unfortunately, once the dealer mucks a hand, there is nothing that can be done to retrieve it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree partially, JDesab. I think you should hold "the good of the game" over any specific rule, when the actions of the player in question did not cause most of the problem.

However, Merton0806, you open a slippery slope when you start digging cards out from a pile (as opposed to easily identifiable without digging). If everyone trusts everyone else, that's great.... but it could be a flashpoint if the wrong person gets cards back... or if someone else gets knocked out of the tourney as a result.

Balance the two ideas, but lean towards killing the hand and the victim learning an important lesson that they will carry with them throughout their card playing experiences.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

A tought thing to happen having cards mucked. Anyways, at my home game we muck into the pot and/or towards the pot. Sometimes a player will collect the mucked cards and get them ready for the next dealer in which case we muck to him. We don't have a rule forcing any of this

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
(with the wooden panel around the edge)

[/ QUOTE ]

with 3000+ posts and you are in awe of a 10 man nice table with a race track and didn't know to cover your hand. Want to come to my game. You are welcome anytime.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

yeah, it's std. protect your hand. I normally just cage my cards with my fingertips. that way I can just freeze and the dealer can pull the tossed cards away. Then I can lift my fingers away and my hand is still there. (sometimes I'll use a chip too)

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

With 200 posts, I would think you'd have learned to read better, and also not be an idiot, by now.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

thanks for the responses ill remember that next time. i didnt really wanna kill the guys hand cause it was my mistake but rules are rules i guess...

time for a quick brag: went on to win the tourney for 360 USD. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

no! give cards to player who mucked them and tell him to take away his cards. You raised it and should get your raise back at least but I would argue that Im still in the hand.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
no! give cards to player who mucked them and tell him to take away his cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

ABSOLUTELY NOT. "Hey, I have an ace with a weak kicker, guess I'll 'accidentally' muck my buddy's cards so I can give him the best two of the four."

Protect your hand.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
no! give cards to player who mucked them and tell him to take away his cards. You raised it and should get your raise back at least but I would argue that Im still in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't work at all, and is SURE to cause more problems. All of these things are almost completely taken care of if you protect your hand.

It's just part of the game, there aren't a lot of do-overs.

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

get a card protector ldo

Re: my cards get mucked, standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(with the wooden panel around the edge)

[/ QUOTE ]

with 3000+ posts and you are in awe of a 10 man nice table with a race track and didn't know to cover your hand. Want to come to my game. You are welcome anytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe. If the players are like you it would have to be a damn good game for me to put up with the "know it all" arguing sure to take place after every hand.