two pair river vs idiot
 

Stack sizes:
UTG: $378
UTG+1: $138.80
Hero: $437.50
Button: $430.34
SB: $453.61
BB: $188.10

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $10</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($42, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($42, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $10</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $45</font>, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($142, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $78</font>, Hero ??


SB is a reg, who I don't think is too good. Button's another bag reg.

Villain is a huge donk, 44/18. He doubled off me qq vs ak a few hands ago.

he instabet the river if that matters.

On the turn, anyone just call?

edit: villain has six dollars behind

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

I wouldn't raise the turn unless I was prepared to call a shove, and your hand improved on the river. Easy call as played.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

turn is awful imo, u´r repping a slowplayed set and thats a tough sell, considering how drawy the flop is.

If Villain is a huge donk, i guess you gotta call, there are worse hands he could vbet like TQ. maybe missed clubs...
still dont like that spot.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

I might be too knitty, but I lean towards folding.

I can't see a hand Villain would bet here that we beat (pf doesn't suggest AK, flop/turn line is wrong for QT). If I know Villain can bet complete air/missed flush draw here I might consider a call but I would have to have some read on him for that.

A 44/18 can easily have J9 (maybe even AJ) here IMHO.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
turn is awful imo, u´r repping a slowplayed set and thats a tough sell, considering how drawy the flop is.

[/ QUOTE ]

turn bet was for value/hand protection. I felt like I had the best hand at the time.

I don't see how villain can have QT here.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

reads, stats?

turn is def a call here, and sometimes a fold I think. The turn raise is more of a bluff than for value or protection. You're raising two players oop w/mpgk...

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

Turn raise is definitely more of a bluff than value...

As played, I call river

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

played fine imo. facing that weak bet, ur ahead a ton of the time on the turn, so protect and get some value out of weaker hands/draws. now go all in for his last $6. sorry if he has J9, but Kxcc, K7, etc...

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

I thought this was a thread about 'do I push or call?'

But then I saw he only had $6 behind. Just get it in.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

Yeah, I just noticed he has $6 behind. I meant to say "Shove"

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I just noticed he has $6 behind. I meant to say "Shove"

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yeah, same thing.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
turn is awful imo, u´r repping a slowplayed set and thats a tough sell, considering how drawy the flop is.


[/ QUOTE ]

Turn is straight value and pretty standard imo. Villains range for donking the turn here is mainly weaker tens/pairs and draws.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
turn is awful imo, u´r repping a slowplayed set and thats a tough sell, considering how drawy the flop is.


[/ QUOTE ]

Turn is straight value and pretty standard imo. Villains range for donking the turn here is mainly weaker tens/pairs and draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does he ever donk with a Q?

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

he prob bets more with a Q

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

i really dont like the turn raise. youre making your hand pretty much into a bluff. Q's arent gonna fold and all worse hands probably will, aside from draws.

as played, im not folding that river. you beat too many hands.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
i really dont like the turn raise. youre making your hand pretty much into a bluff. Q's arent gonna fold and all worse hands probably will, aside from draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can definitely see villain calling here with a weaker ten and draws, plus there are a couple players behind us and we need to protect our hand with this many people in the pot.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

ppl who bet $10 into $50 pot don't usually fold whatever they bet $10 with.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

Don't think I could quick enough, especially when you see him flip up JK half the time. Also, don't like the turn raise.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
ppl who bet $10 into $50 pot don't usually fold whatever they bet $10 with.

[/ QUOTE ]
People leading weak fold all the time when I raise them.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

[ QUOTE ]
ppl who bet $10 into $50 pot don't usually fold whatever they bet $10 with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree hugely with this.

Re: two pair river vs idiot
 

I am VERY scared of weak bettors when they show strength later on (like calling without draw odds, or betting).

I think the most important stat here is river aggression frequency. If he bets rivers most of the time, then I'd lean towards a call. Mostly, without reads, this is a fold. The most likely hands here are KQ and AJ imo.

The turn bet is fine, if you expected a fold most of the time.

44/18 means a lot. But some loose players usually have it when the pot is so big.

Well this whole post sounds like I know a lot hehe. In fact I don't. Discredit my opinions if you are doing well in ssnl yourself and don't agree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].