warning: contents may contain SPEW
 

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $636
UTG: $422
Hero (CO): $939.40
BTN: $579.40
SB: $719.30

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $14</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($30) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $23</font>, BB calls $23

Turn: ($76) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($76) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $58</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $180</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $902.40 and is All-In</font>

villain is philuva. ok, so i decide to value bet second pair (maybe bad, but he calls me light all the time), and then i try to bluff... i think he has a flush?

anyway, history is that he has shown to river check raise me by far the most out of any regular. i think he generally "has" it (i dont usually look him up, so on this, im not completely sure) but in this spot, i think he has a boat like never.

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but in this spot, i think he has a boat like never.

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you neither

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I'm sure he never has a boat but do you?

I expect he's bluffing here. edit: depending on his defend BB %

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he wont fold a flush with these odds

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Actually the good thing about this is, he may decide you're definitely fos and make a hero call with 98.

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I like it.

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i can be trixy sometimes and check turn with a set.

its not likely, but it happens some % of the time, and it cant be discounted completely.

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he wont fold a flush with these odds

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Why is that? It`s like 350 more to him and he only beats a bluff.

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yah, im also sort of banking on the "its 100bb to me and all i have is a bluff catcher" aspect.

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you MIGHT get him to fold a tiny flush if he's a nit and isn't able to properly analyze your play

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people who do plays like this never have the image to do it +ev lol.

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people who do plays like this never have the image to do it +ev lol.

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lol so true.

gl with the whole him folding thing. not likely to happen. i think a call is better than a shove tbh

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people who do plays like this never have the image to do it +ev lol.

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lol so true.

gl with the whole him folding thing. not likely to happen. i think a call is better than a shove tbh

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call is so bad

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people who do plays like this never have the image to do it +ev lol.

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lol so true.

gl with the whole him folding thing. not likely to happen. i think a call is better than a shove tbh

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call is so bad

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great post

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nah i'm with triumph, i think calling is actually better than shoving

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Really spewy. Do you ever check a set on the turn?

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I think your river bet is prolly spewy. You're prolly good here so what worse hands do you expect to call? You could just check behind and take your money, but it looks like you were looking for his cr so you could finally come back over the top instead of your usual fold. Brilliant.

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I think this is a fistpump call, I don't see him folding anything that beats you...mayyyyybe Qx. But if he called w/ 9T, you are my hero

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I think your river bet is prolly spewy. You're prolly good here so what worse hands do you expect to call? You could just check behind and take your money, but it looks like you were looking for his cr so you could finally come back over the top instead of your usual fold. Brilliant.

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initial value bet is thin, but given dynamic, i think its ok. im most likely ahead, i give him a chance to call with 9T/JT/44/whatever.

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I might fold a slowplayed striaght to you on the river, but thats about it.
He´s not folding a flush, since ur prolly not vshoving a (higher) flush here, and as others said,u like never have a boat.
even if u say the "some % of the time..."
i mean, that he´ll pay you off the some% when u indeed were getting tricky on the turn.

Btw, i wouldnt rule out for him to have 99 here.

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I know it seems like all of medium/high stakes is hell bent lately on river check/raises, but I actually kinda like this one as long as its not some random opponent. He hasnt put too much money in and hes def not 'committed' to call a shove with just any flush. Id muuuuch rather make this play vs a regular who Im confident can read hands well cause this is prob exactly how id play 99, JJ or QQ (and sometimes nut flush). BTW shove&gt; call in my opinion

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call &gt; shove

but shove &gt; fold

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if you think hes bluffing, just call. when he's not bluffing, he folds like 10% of the time max.

not much else needs to be said.

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if you think hes bluffing, just call. when he's not bluffing, he folds like 10% of the time max.

not much else needs to be said.

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QFT

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You guys realize that it's $400+ more for villain to call on the river here right? It's not they're 100BBs deep and he's getting sick odds to call here. I like this and I think it's better than calling vs him, but if he views you as really crazy/bluffy than I guess maybe calling is better.

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i think this is a sick play. don't get the hate for it. lol at thinking you have to bet a set 100% of the time on the turn.

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i think this is a sick play. don't get the hate for it. lol at thinking you have to bet a set 100% of the time on the turn.

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Wasn't a set on a similar turn the subject of the Grimstarr vs. Amoeba 'Save the money or burn it' thread? Granted, given the flop texture his range is less weighted towards flush draws so one could make an argument for vbetting more, but I don't think that checking with a set is out of the question.

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i like this a lot but that's probably because i'd expect this to have a near-100% success rate v nonboats for me - no idea how you play...

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results: he folded after like 4 seconds. no idea if he was bluffing or folding a flush or whatever.

not sure i like my play, but with history, i think its ok.

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I know it seems like all of medium/high stakes is hell bent lately on river check/raises

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That's because people are betting the river too thin. (In a theoretical sense, not a practical one.)

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I took an unusual line with Ac Ax.

Given our stack sizes I think you should check a set behind fairly often on that turn, so I am not sure how people can rule that hand out for you.

I still don't really like your play that much, even though it worked for this hand. I think I am calling your push with a better hand or folding a bluff too often to make this play +ev.

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love it

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I like it if he's the typical 2/4 thinking tagish reg. He'll never have a boat and he should know your first bet is rarely a bluff, so all he really beats is a vbet turned bluff. So yea unless u have some ridiculous history he should fold a flush, def the lower ones.

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btw i hate c/r the river there with acax

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I think I am calling your push with a better hand or folding a bluff too often to make this play +ev.

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see, here is where i disagree. id argue in this scenario that AA = KTcc. first, theres very little chance that i check behind the turn a hand that beats AA and loses to KTcc on the river(eg, a baby flush). and certainly, im not 3bet shoving a baby flush for value.

in fact, the only flush i would check behind on the turn is the nut flush, but seeing that you have the Ac, thats not possible.

so basically, my river 3betting range is ultra polarized to boat or bluff / made hand turned into a bluff.

so if you guys are so hell bent on calling here with a flush (and it seems adamant that you all are), you have to call with any hand that beats AQ.

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so if you guys are so hell bent on calling here with a flush (and it seems adamant that you all are), you have to call with any hand that beats AQ.

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should I fold 99?

I am not going to go into great detail but I still think calling was better than folding. Checking behind on the river was probably best. you were fortunate that I played this specific hand in a strange way.

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thoughts (from anyone, not just phil) about how to play 99 against the op on the flop with these stacks?