TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

Villain is a 33/22 over 152 hands. Should I fold with the lead out bet on the turn or call and act cautiously on the river?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $5.25
SB: $26
BB: $26.15
Hero (UTG): $25.90
MP: $24.75
CO: $45.15

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($3.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $5.25</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $3.50

Turn: ($13.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $5.25</font>, Hero ??

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

Dont really get or like your flop raise.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

flop raise is std against donk bettor

i call with the intention of calling many rivers

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

I'm thinking the same as Micro..this guys stats are LAG donkish so I dont put him on trips....I think he reraises the flop if he hit big there.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

yeah i think i would call down

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
flop raise is std against donk bettor

i call with the intention of calling many rivers

[/ QUOTE ]

so you are rasing flop and hoping donk will continue to fire at you with QJ KQ TT JJ etc?

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

given his stats, he will keep firing weaker queens

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

This thread isn't about what I think...I obv posted it because I'm unsure of what the correct play is. Hoping people will give input as to what they would do. What are you getting at retep?

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
given his stats, he will keep firing weaker queens

[/ QUOTE ]

All the stats we have only indicate this players preflop tendencies.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

we wasnt given a AF, so we can only assume by that. and it tells us he will fire with weaker hands.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

I just call him down. Valuebet if he checks.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a 33/22 over 152 hands. Should I fold with the lead out bet on the turn or call and act cautiously on the river?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker
Hand History Converter

BTN: $5.25
SB: $26
BB: $26.15
Hero (UTG): $25.90
MP: $24.75
CO: $45.15

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($3.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $5.25</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $3.50

Turn: ($13.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $5.25</font>, Hero ??

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually just call flop here but him calling and leading weak agin is really suspect.. I min raise turn and watch out for timing tell.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

We are either WA or WB here. He could do this with JT or a 9 just as easily as a worse Q. I think calling down is much better than any kind of min raise, raise etc.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

You raise because you want to:

a) Protect your hand (make villains pay for draws)
b) Get value from worse hands
c) You don't have a hand but think the opponent will fold
d) Disguise a drawing hand

On a flop like this where you pair a high face card you're WA/WB, villain has 2-3 outs or has you crushed. Because of this, I think it's essential just to call the flop bet to keep worse hands (pairs, weak Q's) in the hand and give villain the chance to keep bluffing. The only draw on the flop is TJ but in my opinion you don't need to raise just to protect against it. Hence I'd just call the flop bet and call/bet the turn.

As played, this is a tough spot as villain will most likely shove on the river. Villain's bet is either a monster or a weak Q making a blocking bet. I call and fold to a big river bet, don't see him betting Q's on the river so his bet would either be air or the nuts.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

As it turns out he did have J10, so my flop raise was very good imo. I called his turn bet and he checked to a rag on the river for some reason while I checked behind.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

it's nice when they let you get to a cheap showdown

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
You raise because you want to:

a) Protect your hand (make villains pay for draws)
b) Get value from worse hands
c) You don't have a hand but think the opponent will fold
d) Disguise a drawing hand

On a flop like this where you pair a high face card you're WA/WB, villain has 2-3 outs or has you crushed. Because of this, I think it's essential just to call the flop bet to keep worse hands (pairs, weak Q's) in the hand and give villain the chance to keep bluffing. The only draw on the flop is TJ but in my opinion you don't need to raise just to protect against it. Hence I'd just call the flop bet and call/bet the turn.

As played, this is a tough spot as villain will most likely shove on the river. Villain's bet is either a monster or a weak Q making a blocking bet. I call and fold to a big river bet, don't see him betting Q's on the river so his bet would either be air or the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly against a hand like J10 you want to raise because it's a drawin hand. If you don't raise his donkbet he has the correct odds to keep drawin and you don't want that. Besides if you don't raise you give villain control of the hand and you won't know where you are in the hand.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
As it turns out he did have J10, so my flop raise was very good imo. I called his turn bet and he checked to a rag on the river for some reason while I checked behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

He could've have A2 or 55. The point is that you're playing against his whole range, I still wouldn't raise the flop unless I had specific reads that villain called any bets very lightly.

EDIT: His bet was very small, I missed that. I stand corrected, in this case I'd probably raise the flop. If he bet 3/4ths or more I wouldn't.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

Well played.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

overall, you get more value out of worse hands by calling the flop on a board like that. he usually isn't going to have the one draw in play. much more often you'll see pp or Qx that has almost no chance of catching you.

edit: Qx, pp, or a bluff, that is.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
overall, you get more value out of worse hands by calling the flop on a board like that. he usually isn't going to have the one draw in play. much more often you'll see pp or Qx that has almost no chance of catching you.

edit: Qx, pp, or a bluff, that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not raising this flop is a pretty big mistake imo. Are you flat calling here with AA or KK? AA = AQ here. Its not like villain is folding any qx hand here if you raise or tj. Calling basically allows villain to continue to bluff which he probably is doing rarely, and maybe gets one more street of small value from an underpair assuming the board doesn't get even scarier. Just start trying to get max value from JT and Qx right away which are the main hands that you will be getting value from in this spot anyways.

edit: probably not that important at this level, but hand balancing should also be brought into consideration. You don't want your raising range on this flop to be polarized to nines or nothing.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

AA/KK are in worse shape vs. Qx than AQ.

er, actually they're not on that paired board. i call with them too.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

[ QUOTE ]
AA/KK are in worse shape vs. Qx than AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Maybe I'm reading this wrong but this is completely false.

edit: ok saw the edit.

Re: TPTK with resistance on the turn.....???
 

yeah, i already edited.