FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

Do these tournmanets pay out every dollar that goes into them (making them promotional, in a sense), or does FTP keep part of the buy-in as an entry fee? The quote from FTP's newest press release makes it sound like they pay 100% of the money out that goes in:

"For example, a Knockout Bounty tournament with a buy-in of $24 will have $20 going to the prize pool and $4 as a bounty on each player"
--FTP

Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

It'll prolly be the standard 24+2 type of tourney.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

I'm about to play one right now. Looks like .50 goes to FTP. $4 goes to the prize pool. And $1 goes to the person who knocks you out.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

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Why do you claim this?

Do other people think this is true?

In a sense, this bounty is the overall payout structure of the tourney flatter, which in general would have a negative effect on good players' ROIs, right?

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

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In a sense, this bounty is the overall payout structure of the tourney flatter, which in general would have a negative effect on good players' ROIs, right?

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The knockout bounty seems to create two separate prize pools:
- The effective buyin for the tourney itself is the full buyin minus the typical bounty of ~20-25% of the entry fee.
- The knockout bounty then goes into a separate prize pool.

Good players should be able to exploit this dichotomy to have higher ROI on their effective tourney buy-in.

(Also, good players win more flips on average than bad players and should have a higher ROI from the knockout bounty side pool.)

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

So basically you get a dollar back (pro-rata as you move up entry fee's) back for each player you knock out?

Sounds like fun at least but yeah the payouts will be severely flattened

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Either way, this should have a positive effect on a good player's ROI.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you claim this?
Do other people think this is true?
In a sense, this bounty is the overall payout structure of the tourney flatter, which in general would have a negative effect on good players' ROIs, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly haven't thought about it or broken it down mathematically, but my initial thoughts were this:

1. This may or may not be true, as I'm going only on the FTP press release and what their release made it sound like, but it *sounds* like the tournament entry fee is smaller as a percentage of the buy-in, which leads to a higher ROI. It also *sounds* like the knockout bounty money is coming MOSTLY from the additional money that FTP would normally just keep as a tournament entry fee (is this true??). If that is true, then the prize pool is flatter, but not drastically flatter, as FTP is just taking a pay cut form the entry fees to pay for most of this.
2. Bad players will be more likely to actually let these little bounties effect their play, making a few of the bad players worse and making the tables slightly more fishy, on average, in large pots.
3. Bad players stand to knockout other players less often than good players. This is mostly due to the fact that they are often out of the tournament after the first hour, and don't even have the opportunity to knockout other players when they're on the rail. On a *per hand* basis, a bad player *might* take so many ill-concieved risks in big pots that they might knockout as many, or more, opponents as a good player. But on a *per tournament* basis, the good player knocks out far more opponents than a bad player.

Those are just my initial thoughts. Again, I don't know for sure how the entry fee / prize pool structure works, and haven't really broken it down. It just seems to me that it would have a positive impact on ROI for a good player at first glance.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

will hill have these, called headhunters where for a $10 headhunter $5 goes in the prizepool and $5 goes on your head. when you knock someone out you bankk %75 of their head value and add %25 of it onto yours.

payouts are flatter and encourages a big loss in FE. fun but not as good as normal payouts in the long run IMO.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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1. This may or may not be true, as I'm going only on the FTP press release and what their release made it sound like, but it *sounds* like the tournament entry fee is smaller as a percentage of the buy-in, which leads to a higher ROI. It also *sounds* like the knockout bounty money is coming MOSTLY from the additional money that FTP would normally just keep as a tournament entry fee (is this true??). If that is true, then the prize pool is flatter, but not drastically flatter, as FTP is just taking a pay cut form the entry fees to pay for most of this.

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I think you're wrong on this point. The way I read it, rake is staying the same. It will still be, say, a $24 + 2 tourney. But of the $24, $20 goes to the regular prize pool, and $4 goes to the bounty.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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I think you're wrong on this point. The way I read it, rake is staying the same. It will still be, say, a $24 + 2 tourney. But of the $24, $20 goes to the regular prize pool, and $4 goes to the bounty.

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I wouldn't be nearly as "excited" about these if that was true. Then it would seem like it would help the ROI of the weaker players, but at the same time it's hard to predict how weak the fields will be relative to "traditional" tournaments, since a prize pool that's significantly flatter tends to (IMO) attract donkeys--at least in live home games that's my experience.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

New FTOPS event representing this structure, btw.


Actually very interested in it, since the BI is low and if I can pull off satting into it, I can have a flatter variance and less loss of edge.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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(Also, good players win more flips on average than bad players and should have a higher ROI from the knockout bounty side pool.)

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I must be a terrible player

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

Might this cause some weird things to happen with tournament equity? For example, you're in quite significantly better shape with 10,001 chips with the rest of the table all having 10,000 chips than if you had 9,999 chips. Does this mean it might be feasible to make some marginally -EV decisions that could improve your "knockout equity"?

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

5+0.5, 4 to prizepool, 1 to knockoutprizepool and 0.5 rake.


anyway how should u adjust to this?


UB has this as well btw.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

these things are getting really big fields!

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

I like 'em a lot so far I think

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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I like 'em a lot so far

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Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

it gives more incentive for retards to be retards, because there is a short term reward

every tournament should be a bounty tournament

and sixmax

with high antes

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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it gives more incentive for retards to be retards, because there is a short term reward

every tournament should be a bounty tournament

and sixmax

with high antes

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree, probably might as well make it split pot, too

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

I'm kinda surprised people in the higher stakes tournies like these. It seems like a lot of money to take out of the overall prizepool although it is a fun concept.

I'd think it makes more sense in smaller stakes where most people are happy just winning any semblence of money.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

holla at the 129

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

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anyway how should u adjust to this?

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1. Don't donk off all your chips trying too hard to knock people out.

2. However, when facing an allin from a shorter stack, understand how the bounty affects your pot odds. In a 4+1+0.5 tournament with 1500 starting stacks, a bounty is worth about 300 chips (because the bounty pool is 1/5 of the total prize pool). So for example if blinds are 10/20, you're in the BB, it folds around to SB who goes allin for 150 chips, you should obv be calling with 32o.

3. Expect to get called more when going all in against a bigger stack. Expect the field to contain bad players who will ignore (1).

4. The deeper you get in the tournament, the less relevant the bounties become.

5. Don't donk off all your chips trying too hard to knock people out.

6. Don't donk off all your chips trying too hard to knock people out.

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

These things r the [censored]! I love how the average field size for these is almost double the same buyin standard FO. I still dont know how i feel about the whole bounty thing but w/e

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

i've played a lot of the headhunters on crypto which are similar but significantly different

in the headhunters the entry fee is split half and half between knockouts and standard payouts - in a $20 mtt $10 goes in the prize pool and $10 (+/- a bit depending on leaderboard points) goes on your head.

when you knock someone out you only get 75% of their head value, the other 25% adds to the value of your head

head values are displayed next to chip stacks and late on you see some big heads, which severely disrupt the play if they become short stacked

payout is flatter, but i believe that in these and the ftp knockouts a good player can do very well by adjusting correctly because most are getting it wrong ^^^^

and yeah 10,001 > 10,000

Re: FTP\'s New \"Knockout Bounty\" MTTs
 

Really enjoyed the one I got the play; found it incredibly easy to

a.) build a monster stack punishing slightly larger stacks who called because they wanted to bust me.

b.) Lower my variance because I got cold decked in the face by a monster stack but still got a chance to bust some donks.