Couples with differing views on religion
 

My girlfriend and I disagree on pretty much everything religion-related, and we're also both very stubborn. This obviously wouldn't be a big deal if it were just a casual dating thing, but we've been together for a few years and there's talk of making the ultimate sacrifice. FWIW, I'm in the "religion is retarded" camp (agnostic/atheist), and she's Greek Orthodox. While she doesn't practice, she still believes in God and wants her children to be churchgoers. This seems like it could be trouble down the road.

Blind faith makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's not a matter of "not being open" (as has been suggested), it's just not how I'm wired. I need to see things for myself.

I'm sure this is a fairly common situation, but I'd still like to hear any insight anyone has.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

I have only been through this in a couple of long term relationships and it was not much of a problem. The occasional asking me to go to church with her was kinda awkward...but it was not that big of a deal. I can't imagine getting married to someone who insists on taking the kids to church every week. I assume it would put a big strain on the marriage if the kids ask me why I don't go to church with them and they find out that mommy basically thinks daddy is going to hell.

Ugh, that would suck.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

Ya. You all need to get married. Should work out well.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

This is exactly why I broke up with my longest term girlfriend to date and now only exclusively date non-religious girls.

The LT GF was very Christian, even being a youth counselor at her church. I'm agnostic. Eventually we realized that no matter how well we got along, religion would screw us over. Either she'd have all this religious stuff to do that I was no part of or we'd disagree a ton on raising our kids.

My current GF has been with me about 3 months. I love how we get along really well AND we don't have any issues related to regilion. It's a total nonfactor in both our lives.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

Why would you care if your future wife wants your children to go to church? Religious beliefs aside, how could having your children be church-goers for the early part of their lives and then allowing them to make a choice when they're capable of doing so have any detrimental effects on them? Maybe this is me projecting my experiences on the general population, but I do not know of one person raised in a strong family who was told to go to church growing up ended up being a bad person because of it.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you care if your future wife wants your children to go to church? Religious beliefs aside, how could having your children be church-goers for the early part of their lives and then allowing them to make a choice when they're capable of doing so have any detrimental effects on them? Maybe this is me projecting my experiences on the general population, but I do not know of one person raised in a strong family who was told to go to church growing up ended up being a bad person because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This issue is essentially this: "Mommy goes to church with us, why doesn't daddy?"

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you care if your future wife wants your children to go to church? Religious beliefs aside, how could having your children be church-goers for the early part of their lives and then allowing them to make a choice when they're capable of doing so have any detrimental effects on them?

[/ QUOTE ]
How could it be anything but detrimental to teach your children to base their lives on a fundamental lie, when they are their most open and the things they learn will stick with them the longest, simply to respect your wife's superstitions?

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is me projecting my experiences on the general population, but I do not know of one person raised in a strong family who was told to go to church growing up ended up being a bad person because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is so LOL I don't know where to begin, but let's start with Fred Phelps and his brood.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

This is a huge potential problem. If she is serious about raising kids with religion, you should either give in or seriously consider breaking off the relationship. You don't have to become a priest, but you may need to bend a little bit.

My wife and I both have very similar views of religion and we have seen nothing but problems with our friends who disagree. It is a problem that will only get worse over time.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you care if your future wife wants your children to go to church? Religious beliefs aside, how could having your children be church-goers for the early part of their lives and then allowing them to make a choice when they're capable of doing so have any detrimental effects on them?

[/ QUOTE ]
How could it be anything but detrimental to teach your children to base their lives on a fundamental lie, when they are their most open and the things they learn will stick with them the longest, simply to respect your wife's superstitions?


[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is me projecting my experiences on the general population, but I do not know of one person raised in a strong family who was told to go to church growing up ended up being a bad person because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is so LOL I don't know where to begin, but let's start with Fred Phelps and his brood.



[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know your children will think the same way. This isn't the same thing as allowing them to do something that IS factually wrong / immoral. It is an opinion that you hold that they might actually disagree with.

Maybe you read-over the "strong family" part? Of course there are exceptions to any rule. I'm sure there are atheists out there who raise their children based on terrible morals and beliefs. The ideals of the religion and the ways in which your raise you children must be solid.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you care if your future wife wants your children to go to church? Religious beliefs aside, how could having your children be church-goers for the early part of their lives and then allowing them to make a choice when they're capable of doing so have any detrimental effects on them? Maybe this is me projecting my experiences on the general population, but I do not know of one person raised in a strong family who was told to go to church growing up ended up being a bad person because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seems like it would make more sense to give them the option to go instead of the option to leave. If they're truly going to be spiritual/religious (which is fine), I'd rather it be because they decided to be, not because that's what they were taught.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

My wife is a strong Catholic. Goes to church on Sundays, says her rosary every day. I am atheist. We have 2 young boys. I went to the baptisms.

On Sundays, she brings the oldest to church with her. Personally, I can't wait until she brings the younger one with her also. I get an hour of time to myself Sunday mornings. My only regret is that the wife isn't baptist. That way she'd be in church all day on Sunday and I could watch football in peace!

We have had our heated debates on religion. But, at the end of the day, you have to just respect each other's right to be crazy.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

You're going to want to find a new girlfriend. After that, take this sort of thing over to SMP.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
How do you know your children will think the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because ALL children have so much of their courses in life set very early on by modeling after their parents, and it's often a long and difficult process to undo things that were learned wrongly. Why even give them that to deal with?

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't the same thing as allowing them to do something that IS factually wrong / immoral. It is an opinion that you hold that they might actually disagree with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except that you've basically programmed them from an early age to believe that opinion as the truest truth in life. So, yeah, if they're actually self-aware enough to look past THAT, they may well disagree, but mostly they'll accept it as the way it is, because they learned it so young.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you read-over the "strong family" part? Of course there are exceptions to any rule. I'm sure there are atheists out there who raise their children based on terrible morals and beliefs. The ideals of the religion and the ways in which your raise you children must be solid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, but looking at your statement like that, I might as well say, "I don't know anyone raised in a strong family who was told to eat bacon and mayonnaise sandwiches growing up ended up being a bad person because of it." Just start throwing in qualifiers until you get a demographic that proves your point, amirite?

I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good, and I wouldn't marry someone who wanted to raise our children in an organized religion. It is that big a deal to me.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have only been through this in a couple of long term relationships and it was not much of a problem. The occasional asking me to go to church with her was kinda awkward...but it was not that big of a deal. I can't imagine getting married to someone who insists on taking the kids to church every week. I assume it would put a big strain on the marriage if the kids ask me why I don't go to church with them and they find out that mommy basically thinks daddy is going to hell.

Ugh, that would suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

we i was younger, my dad didn't go to church with my mom, my brothers and myself, and it was never a big deal.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good, and I wouldn't marry someone who wanted to raise our children in an organized religion. It is that big a deal to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if they take them to the Jesus Camp types of church. There are actually Christians who preach love and understanding in this world (though they are obviously not as prominent as the nutty Christians).

I went to Church every Sunday as a kid, and I think it did a world of good for me. I learnt a lot about morality, compassion, forgiveness etc there and I think it was beneficial. At about 13 I stopped going because I thought it was crap, and my parents were fine with this (a little disappointed but fine) and respected my choice. If religion is taught to children in an open-minded way I think it enormously beneficial to their development as good human beings.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have only been through this in a couple of long term relationships and it was not much of a problem. The occasional asking me to go to church with her was kinda awkward...but it was not that big of a deal. I can't imagine getting married to someone who insists on taking the kids to church every week. I assume it would put a big strain on the marriage if the kids ask me why I don't go to church with them and they find out that mommy basically thinks daddy is going to hell.

Ugh, that would suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

we i was younger, my dad didn't go to church with my mom, my brothers and myself, and it was never a big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think too many aethiest parents in these relationships have this irrational (for the most part) fear that their kids are going to be brainwashed or something.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good, and I wouldn't marry someone who wanted to raise our children in an organized religion. It is that big a deal to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if they take them to the Jesus Camp types of church. There are actually Christians who preach love and understanding in this world (though they are obviously not as prominent as the nutty Christians).

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but that kind of fits into my point-- you can teach peace, love, and understanding without needing it to be in the name of a deity. Christianity is superfluous here. (To clarify, I'm not talking about Jesus, the preacher and philosopher; I'm talking about the fetishization of the crucifixion, the basic assumptions that we are born sinful and can only be redeemed through worshiping an omniscient deity and his representative on Earth's gruesome death, etc.)

[ QUOTE ]
I went to Church every Sunday as a kid, and I think it did a world of good for me. I learnt a lot about morality, compassion, forgiveness etc there and I think it was beneficial. At about 13 I stopped going because I thought it was crap, and my parents were fine with this (a little disappointed but fine) and respected my choice. If religion is taught to children in an open-minded way I think it enormously beneficial to their development as good human beings.

[/ QUOTE ]
I went to church every Sunday until I left for college. My parents wouldn't have it any other way. I had decided around age four it was pretty stupid, and tuned it all out, but fortunately for me, I was not born completely amoral and did not need to be taught love and compassion.

In college, however, I did find that marijuana made the Catholic ceremony much more entertaining.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

I don't know what kind of church your wife goes to if they are preaching that you're going to hell for not going. FWIW, thats not standard in Christianity at all (in my experience). I really can't see how having kids go to church with her would be detrimental to them or your relationship with your wife or kids. Seems like you're a little ignorant tbh.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

The morality, compassion and forgiveness can easily be learned by parents who practice these things. I just have a problem with associating "being a good person" with religion.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good, and I wouldn't marry someone who wanted to raise our children in an organized religion. It is that big a deal to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if they take them to the Jesus Camp types of church. There are actually Christians who preach love and understanding in this world (though they are obviously not as prominent as the nutty Christians).

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but that kind of fits into my point-- you can teach peace, love, and understanding without needing it to be in the name of a deity. Christianity is superfluous here. (To clarify, I'm not talking about Jesus, the preacher and philosopher; I'm talking about the fetishization of the crucifixion, the basic assumptions that we are born sinful and can only be redeemed through worshiping an omniscient deity and his representative on Earth's gruesome death, etc.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if the parent thinks this is a good way to teach morality etc to their kid who are you to disagree? If you raise your child to be self-aware and open-minded I really don't see how teaching them about a deity who preaches love and forgiveness can really be such a bad thing?

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

I could never be in a longterm relationship with any girl who believes in this god nonsense.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
I could never be in a longterm relationship with any girl who believes in this god nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

imo comments like this make you even more close-minded than the religous people you look down on and consider close-minded.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could never be in a longterm relationship with any girl who believes in this god nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

imo comments like this make you even more close-minded than the religous people you look down on and consider close-minded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely. I'd be open to relationships with a girl of just about any religion provided that she is open-minded and accepts my religious views.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if the parent thinks this is a good way to teach morality etc to their kid who are you to disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm me, and I'm right. Parenting is one of those jobs that's easy to get without being qualified.

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise your child to be self-aware and open-minded I really don't see how teaching them about a deity who preaches love and forgiveness can really be such a bad thing?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you raise your child to be self-aware and open-minded, why bother teaching them that a specific god is the right one?

The problem is that people who teach their children about one god tend to teach them that it is the most important and truest thing in the world, and subsequently teach their children to see divisions among us based on who believes and who doesn't, and to regard the others as inferior. Children don't naturally see those distinctions between people. They don't come into this world believing that worshiping god is more important than the life and reality that is the here and now. They come into the world loving and open-minded; their experiences are what close that.

Children don't need to be taught love and compassion; if anything, they should be teaching it to us.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could never be in a longterm relationship with any girl who believes in this god nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

imo comments like this make you even more close-minded than the religous people you look down on and consider close-minded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely. I'd be open to relationships with a girl of just about any religion provided that she is open-minded and accepts my religious views.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. Except Scientologists or those Kaballah people. Cuz thats just ghey. Well, maybe if they were [censored] smoking hot.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could never be in a longterm relationship with any girl who believes in this god nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

imo comments like this make you even more close-minded than the religous people you look down on and consider close-minded.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree; I think he's being up-front about what he wants in a relationship. From my perspective, I might date someone who was religious for a little while, but once things started toward the long-term, I am fairly certain that if she was serious in her beliefs, it would cause irreconcilable differences in what we wanted from life-- like, for example, that I would refuse to raise our children in her faith.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

I dont understand why the kids have to accept the religious parents views. If they go to church at that young of an age they're probably going to end up being religious.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

it may screw everything up 1 yr later like 2p2 poster the_dude.

it may cause the brides father not to show at the wedding, and a shtty marriage for 20 yrs followed by a messy divorce like my parents.

it may be fine for 60 yrs until one of yall is on their deathbed.

or it might not matter at all.

and everything in between.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

Nath,

Good points, all around. That is all.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend and I disagree on pretty much everything religion-related, and we're also both very stubborn. This obviously wouldn't be a big deal if it were just a casual dating thing, but we've been together for a few years and there's talk of making the ultimate sacrifice. FWIW, I'm in the "religion is retarded" camp (agnostic/atheist), and she's Greek Orthodox. While she doesn't practice, she still believes in God and wants her children to be churchgoers. This seems like it could be trouble down the road.

Blind faith makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's not a matter of "not being open" (as has been suggested), it's just not how I'm wired. I need to see things for myself.

I'm sure this is a fairly common situation, but I'd still like to hear any insight anyone has.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take it from a Greek: Don't marry a greek woman.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like it would make more sense to give them the option to go instead of the option to leave. If they're truly going to be spiritual/religious (which is fine), I'd rather it be because they decided to be, not because that's what they were taught.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds backwards to me. If you grow up with understanding of a religion, you can decide it isn't for you later. On the other hand, if you don't learn about it, there is pretty much no chance of then finding religion later.

Think about all the people you know who were raised with religion and left it as they got older. Now try to name one who did the opposite.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]


I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good

[/ QUOTE ]

haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I have to applaud this.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good

[/ QUOTE ]

haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I have to applaud this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to hear some peoples experiences or thoughts on how it has harmed children or their lives.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems like it would make more sense to give them the option to go instead of the option to leave. If they're truly going to be spiritual/religious (which is fine), I'd rather it be because they decided to be, not because that's what they were taught.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds backwards to me. If you grow up with understanding of a religion, you can decide it isn't for you later. On the other hand, if you don't learn about it, there is pretty much no chance of then finding religion later.

Think about all the people you know who were raised with religion and left it as they got older. Now try to name one who did the opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't name any, but I can name a lot who are certain their God is the true God and don't really have anything to back up their claim.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems like it would make more sense to give them the option to go instead of the option to leave. If they're truly going to be spiritual/religious (which is fine), I'd rather it be because they decided to be, not because that's what they were taught.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds backwards to me. If you grow up with understanding of a religion, you can decide it isn't for you later. On the other hand, if you don't learn about it, there is pretty much no chance of then finding religion later.

Think about all the people you know who were raised with religion and left it as they got older. Now try to name one who did the opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a really, really good reason why most people who aren't raised religious will never decide on their own to be religious. Finding Jesus (or religious figure of choice) is really, really hard.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

Exactly. That's why it's important to people to raise their kids with the religion that they believe in. This will never make any sense to people who are against religion and will create an impasse between people with different religious traditions when kids are involved.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems like it would make more sense to give them the option to go instead of the option to leave. If they're truly going to be spiritual/religious (which is fine), I'd rather it be because they decided to be, not because that's what they were taught.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds backwards to me. If you grow up with understanding of a religion, you can decide it isn't for you later. On the other hand, if you don't learn about it, there is pretty much no chance of then finding religion later.

Think about all the people you know who were raised with religion and left it as they got older. Now try to name one who did the opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds like one of the bigger indictments of religion to me.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly. That's why it's important to people to raise their kids with the religion that they believe in. This will never make any sense to people who are against religion and will create an impasse between people with different religious traditions when kids are involved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, it makes sense. If you don't get 'em while they're young, they'll see how much hokum it is.

Put it this way, you don't have to find God if you don't invent and subsequently lose him.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think indoctrinating children into organized Christianity does a great deal more harm than good

[/ QUOTE ]

haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I have to applaud this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to hear some peoples experiences or thoughts on how it has harmed children or their lives.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was raised being told fake stories of an invisible man in the sky who would burn me for eternity if I did not follow my parents orders. Is that good?

I wasted a lot of time studying an man made book, time that could have better spent on other more useful pursuits.

All in all it was not too bad, but I am sure it's much worse for other people.

Also, WRT your comment about atheists being close minded. Well, I would agree with that. I am also close minded on a slew of other things such as basic mathematics(2+2=4) and things of that nature.

Re: Couples with differing views on religion
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, WRT your comment about atheists being close minded. Well, I would agree with that. I am also close minded on a slew of other things such as basic mathematics(2+2=4) and things of that nature.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't implying that all aetheists are close-minded. The point I was making about close-mindedness was more about aetheists (often ones who consider themselves liberal and accepting) who ridicule and do not respect the beliefs of god-fearing folk, not aetheists in general.