$50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I checked the WSOP schedule just now because I heard it had been changed. Saw the only new thing was a $50K HORSE, scheduled for THREE days??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

WTF, I mean BarryG, Daniel, Ivey, Doyle and four other guys are going to push chips around for 3 days until someone wins $200K & a bracelet? Don't think so, not when they could be playing sidegames. I'll also take a wild guess that the "final table" will switch to NLHE, at Rio/ESPN insistence.

What am I missing here? S'pose I should've gone to Daniel's blog, and searched this Forum past the last couple weeks before posting. Mighta just earned meself a bright shiny star.

Did try to look on CP's site, but all the news stuff isn't where it was last time I went there. Guess there's always ESPN's poker section, too.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I want some of what you are smoking if you think Negreneau, Greenstein and Doyle aren't going to play in this event.

What is the problem with schedule it for 3 days?
Many of the other prelim events are 2 or 3 days i believe.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

This event was created as a request of the newly formed board of top professional players.

The game is going to switch to no-limit at the end. (I think the final table)

IMO this will become the most prestigous WSOP event within a short period of time.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I will be extremely interested to see how many players participate in this event.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

150 minimum.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
150 minimum.



[/ QUOTE ]

Really. Well, you'd certainly know far better than I. I stand corrected.

Switching to NLHE at the final table is beyond turbo lame, tho. If they're gonna switch, make it to NL27. I mean this is supposed to be the high stakes, high skill tourney, right? At least make it PLHE.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Hope itgets the TV time

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll also take a wild guess that the "final table" will switch to NLHE, at Rio/ESPN insistence.


[/ QUOTE ]

Great guess.

It's already been announced though. What better way to get awesome ratings on TV than a 100% star stacked table of No Limit Holdem?

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

i plan on playing/winning this event

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
100% star stacked table of No Limit Holdem?


[/ QUOTE ]



not quite a guarantee.

Party is giving away $50k HORSE seats in their freerolls which I'm sure the Ivey's and Greenstein's won't be complaining about.

I'm guessing that there might be other sites that will place some people in the $50k HORSE event also.

Not saying that they can or will make the final-table. Would be quite the tall order indeed.
But the implication seemed to be that this event will have ONLY well-known rich-pros entering. But there actually WILL be unknown (and ridiculously overmatched) online-qualifers in there too.



Greg - 100+ would have been my guess. But obviously you know these things much better than I do.
You saying 150+ shows me that there might actually be as much buzz about this event as I am guessing.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Doyle Brunson set his over/under at 50. If 150 play, I will probably play as well.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
i plan on playing/winning this event

[/ QUOTE ]


Pfft. I would play if they added some stud hi-lo no qualifier and maybe some NL draw/NL 5 stud. But these are just a bunch of kiddie games.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

As I already said in the other section,

$50.000 buy-in is pretty much for an amateur player, so I think this will be a poker walk of fame with some great players.

If you look at the 2003 H.O.R.S.E. event at the WSOP:

Some notable players:

Doyle Brunson - 1st
Scotty Nguyen - 5th
Allen Cunnigham - 10th
Carlos Mortensen - 11th
Phil Hellmuth - 12th

Other players capable of playing:

Chris Ferguson
John Juanda
Chip Reese
Ted Forrest
Men the master

Overall, would be very interesting TV.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I'm really disappointed they would switch it to NL at the end. HORSE is a technical game that involves a great deal of overall Poker skill. I'm sick of NL Hold'em being emphasized ALL the time as though it's the only Poker game out there.

Guess it's just another example of how Poker is being changed to accomodate TV and not the other way around... but I guess I should be grateful, because without TV, I never would have started playing Poker seriously.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I don't even like HORSE or the non-holdem games...and even I think it's retarded that they are switching to all NLHE for the final-table.


Not much different than the WPT in a way though.
Play an entire with a normal, slowish strcture for a few days....and then have the final 6 play turbo-style.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Made ultra-palatable for the eventual TV audience.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really disappointed they would switch it to NL at the end. HORSE is a technical game that involves a great deal of overall Poker skill. I'm sick of NL Hold'em being emphasized ALL the time as though it's the only Poker game out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

but its the cadillac man... the cadillac

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
100% star stacked table of No Limit Holdem?


[/ QUOTE ]



not quite a guarantee.

Party is giving away $50k HORSE seats in their freerolls which I'm sure the Ivey's and Greenstein's won't be complaining about.

I'm guessing that there might be other sites that will place some people in the $50k HORSE event also.

Not saying that they can or will make the final-table. Would be quite the tall order indeed.
But the implication seemed to be that this event will have ONLY well-known rich-pros entering. But there actually WILL be unknown (and ridiculously overmatched) online-qualifers in there too.



Greg - 100+ would have been my guess. But obviously you know these things much better than I do.
You saying 150+ shows me that there might actually be as much buzz about this event as I am guessing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there will be many satellite entries, any of which will probably be very dead money. There was some discussion on the MTT forum of people who would like to play, but I think most of them would also be fairly dead money.

There will be a lot of top players and some rich guys who think it is cheaper than sitting in "the big game". Probably there won't be many Europeans. They play a lot of dealers choice there, but it is PL. Some limit stud and holdem in Germany/Austria. This appeals most to old timer US pros used to all these games. I am just speculating and don't have Fossilman's inside information.

I agree that the switch to NLHE, apparently for TV purposes, is lame.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

6% vig seems kind of obscene for this event.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
6% vig seems kind of obscene for this event.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's Walma...err Harrahs. Did you expect anything else?

ENJOY!

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

There is a £750/$1350 SHOE tourney at therivercard poker festival AT MANCHESTER UNITID in June and that is a 2 day tourney. At the moment they are thinking about making the final NLH but are taking a pole to gauge opinion. I hope that they play the final as the rest of the tourney.I am not sick of NLH but like the challange of all the games

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is a £750/$1350 SHOE tourney at therivercard poker festival AT MANCHESTER UNITID in June and that is a 2 day tourney. At the moment they are thinking about making the final NLH but are taking a pole to gauge opinion. I hope that they play the final as the rest of the tourney.I am not sick of NLH but like the challange of all the games

[/ QUOTE ]

If the tournament is not going to be televised, they should keep it HORSE in the final table.

But I agree with the decision to change the final table to NLHE for the WSOP event. This will be rare chance to see a table full of the best players playing for a huge prize pool, so it should be on TV.

But you really can't televise HORSE. Half of the broadcast would be devoted to explaining the rules. And moreover, Stud games just don't televise very well...most of the hands that get on TV are just bet/call, bet/call on most streets.

So I think this is a good compromise. It would be nice to have one or two other mixed game events for lower stakes that wouldn't be on TV, but but this is better than nothing.

BTW, with Party running satellites, I would expect well over 100 players, so first place should be at least $2 million.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Stud is really tough to watch on TV it's just difficult to really follow the hands the way you can do live.

Omaha, Hold Em, and I'd imagine forms of draw would be interesting to watch,

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I don't think it would be nearly as difficult to cover the mixed-games as many people think.

They barely explain the rules anyway, "there's the first 3 cards, then you bet, then another card, then you bet again."
this really isn't explaining a whole lot that you aren't already seeing anyway.

You can explain the most basic rules of the game as you go along.


Regarding the viewers getting confused: I maintain that it will just look like a big 'dealers-choice' game.
For many years home-games everywhere were just whatever game the dealer could imagine, "red 7's and low-spade in the hole are wild" or whatever.
I'm guessing that most home-games now are strictly hold-em.

But I don't think it's such a stretch to have your viewers keep up with what's happening.
And to explain that these players are competing in a tourney that is more about best 'overall' poker-player. Not just hold-em.
And that guys like Greenstein and Doyle have a significant edge because they are more experienced with all the games.

I think that a final-table of HORSE would be extremely compelling.


They showed a final-table of Razz a couple years ago and also showed a final-table of Omaha.
Adding in a triple-draw game to the mix isn't that big a deal.

ESPN should really lighten-up and just do the right thing with the final-table of this.
Harrah's should also consider putting their foot down on this one.

For a $50k event ESPN should really be bending over backwards to want to show it to viewers who already think that a $10k buy-in tournament is impressive.
As well as the fact that it will likely be a star-studded final-table.

(total guess) If Harrah's took a stand it's possible ESPN might say, "Well, if you insist...then I guess we'll just have to broadcast it as best we can."

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Why a horse tourney? There are 3 stud games... pfff.

They should have a holdem, an omaha, a stud, and a lowball-draw.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

I agree that the WSOP will have over 100 players.There are a lot of sponsors getting into poker and with party running sats dont be suprised to see 150. Poker needs to attract more plaayers worldwide and NLH will not keep people interested forever
With regards to the Man Utd Tourney if there are enough entrants 200+ it will be on sky sports and I hope to keep the final table to the SHOE format as I am one of those sad old poker players that like to see the variation and skill that these games bring. If broadcast correctly it should make for interesting viewing

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it would be nearly as difficult to cover the mixed-games as many people think.

They barely explain the rules anyway, "there's the first 3 cards, then you bet, then another card, then you bet again."
this really isn't explaining a whole lot that you aren't already seeing anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

It would basically be difficult to explain because of the high/low split games, and the rules about qualifying for a low hand. But more importantly, it would be difficult to cover because you have so many hands where there is a split pot, and where people are quartering or drawing to part of the pot. How to you show the percentages in this case? Not that it couldn't be done, just that it wouldn't be understood by most of the audience.

And the results of a hand are usually much less definitive. It seems less compelling to try to watch one player "win" by taking half the pot, and another player "lose" by only taking a quarter of it.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Is the whole event played as a NL (vs. PL or L) event or only the final NLHE table?

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is the whole event played as a NL (vs. PL or L) event or only the final NLHE table?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only final table is NL as far as I know.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why a horse tourney? There are 3 stud games... pfff.

They should have a holdem, an omaha, a stud, and a lowball-draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what they play at the "big game" is limit mixed games, so some of the superstars wanted that as an event. It is also considered a supreme test of skill. There are also other high stakes and high midlimit mixed games. A lot of older players know the games well from when they were all popular.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is a £750/$1350 SHOE tourney at therivercard poker festival AT MANCHESTER UNITID in June and that is a 2 day tourney. At the moment they are thinking about making the final NLH but are taking a pole to gauge opinion. I hope that they play the final as the rest of the tourney.I am not sick of NLH but like the challange of all the games

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they playing it pot limit SHOE or limit SHOE?

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a £750/$1350 SHOE tourney at therivercard poker festival AT MANCHESTER UNITID in June and that is a 2 day tourney. At the moment they are thinking about making the final NLH but are taking a pole to gauge opinion. I hope that they play the final as the rest of the tourney.I am not sick of NLH but like the challange of all the games

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they playing it pot limit SHOE or limit SHOE?

[/ QUOTE ]


they are playing pot limit

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

Also don't forget that ESPN is a high light reel not a broadcast of every hand. What is distilled down from a full day of play could very much appear to be a different game on each hand or you might not see any of a certain type of game. If the final table is edited to fit in a one hour time slot (only about 30 minutes of action after accounting for commercials, puff pieces, the Nuts and the Degree All In Moment) then you will only see a few hands and those will mostly be where a player busts out.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a £750/$1350 SHOE tourney at therivercard poker festival AT MANCHESTER UNITID in June and that is a 2 day tourney. At the moment they are thinking about making the final NLH but are taking a pole to gauge opinion. I hope that they play the final as the rest of the tourney.I am not sick of NLH but like the challange of all the games

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they playing it pot limit SHOE or limit SHOE?

[/ QUOTE ]


they are playing pot limit

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know Stud games were ever played Pot Limit.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

lots of people watch that don't even know what they are looking at.

The way that they do their coverage they wouldn't have to show a lot of split-pot hands if they really didn't want to.
Just like they don't show many hold-em hands where somebody raises and he just steals the blinds.
And just like they really don't pay much attention to stack-size or who's in what position or how big the blinds are.

"He raises to $100k" is absolutely meaningless without telling me what the blinds are. And they hardly ever do this.


With the way they creatively ignore certain aspects just to make hold-em 'broadcastable' in their opinion I just don't see why they have to change the whole final-table.

Broadcasting would NOT be that hard.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a £750/$1350 SHOE tourney at therivercard poker festival AT MANCHESTER UNITID in June and that is a 2 day tourney. At the moment they are thinking about making the final NLH but are taking a pole to gauge opinion. I hope that they play the final as the rest of the tourney.I am not sick of NLH but like the challange of all the games

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they playing it pot limit SHOE or limit SHOE?

[/ QUOTE ]


they are playing pot limit

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know Stud games were ever played Pot Limit.

[/ QUOTE ]
I Europe they are. In the UK and Ireland everything is pot limit with maybe some no limit.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

What if the WSOP forgot about the TV broadcast for one event and just gave something to the players? A big-buy-in HORSE event, HORSE all the way through. That would create a lot of goodwill.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
What if the WSOP forgot about the TV broadcast for one event and just gave something to the players? A big-buy-in HORSE event, HORSE all the way through. That would create a lot of goodwill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think the players don't want it on TV?

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
What if the WSOP forgot about the TV broadcast for one event and just gave something to the players? A big-buy-in HORSE event, HORSE all the way through. That would create a lot of goodwill.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of WSOP events that aren't on TV. Like all of the Stud/8 and Omaha/8 events. They have gone too far in eliminating most of these events because they don't broadcast well. But they can't NOT broadcast the first ever $50K buy-in WSOP event. And I'm sure most players would prefer to play NLHE for the final table than not be on TV at all.

Re: $50K WSOP HORSE Tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
lots of people watch that don't even know what they are looking at.

The way that they do their coverage they wouldn't have to show a lot of split-pot hands if they really didn't want to.
Just like they don't show many hold-em hands where somebody raises and he just steals the blinds.
And just like they really don't pay much attention to stack-size or who's in what position or how big the blinds are.

"He raises to $100k" is absolutely meaningless without telling me what the blinds are. And they hardly ever do this.


With the way they creatively ignore certain aspects just to make hold-em 'broadcastable' in their opinion I just don't see why they have to change the whole final-table.

Broadcasting would NOT be that hard.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Razz televises pretty well. I agree that they could pick hands so as not to show the high/low hands where the pot gets quartered. Most people don't understand NLHE either. I think it would be interesting to show something more exotic with different games. There are so many zillion NLHE shows.

I do agree that NL/PL games televise better in general than limit and split games would be difficult to explain. However seeing the top players playing these exotic games would create curiosity.