25-50 with a straddle
 

Live game 25 50 100.

Internet pro opens to 300, tricky hedge fund guy who is smart makes it 1200, he covers us all. I have ~30k on the button with 99. I decide to call, seemed like I had a lot of options but went with the call. Internet pro also calls.

Flop QT9R. Check, hedge fund guy checks, I bet 2500. Internet pro folds, hedge fund guy calls pretty fast. Turn comes 8 completing rainbow. He checks fast, I check. River J. He bets out 3500. I call.

-Jason

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

[censored], anyone here know math?

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

thanks for the update

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

You're calling 3500 to win 4400ish and it sounds like he can definitely show you AK or KJ or KQ at least some of the time. If he's betting this river with 100% or near of his range then sure pick off the split. I don't know what I think of bluffraising the river or betting the turn, both could be considered.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

How quickly did he fire river? The quicker the bet, the more I like the call.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

What's your image here, if any?

I just don't see how the hedge fund guy can rule out you having a king. Also, I think he takes this line with QK and AK a ton.

Think it's gonna be tough to get any satisfying answers to this question, heh.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

how is wall street? id fold pre-flop and the river.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

Looks like KQ playing for pot control on the flop. Have you seen him check the flop ever in WA/WB situations or connected flops? If so, I'm leaning towards a river fold; either way, the math of it all just sucks huge.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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how is wall street? id fold pre-flop and the river.

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Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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aiftw

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this would be nasty.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

Is checking the turn standard after he c/c the flop and checks the turn?

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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Is checking the turn standard after he c/c the flop and checks the turn?

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of course.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

i raise river to 12k
i think he has AK never and folds Kx enough/folds out chops to make this more profitable than flat

on second thought that argues heavily for a shove

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

the problem is he never mucks his hand face down he always says "play the board" when you're right.
i would fold way more then i raise way more then i call.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] raise river to 12k
i think he has AK never and folds Kx enough/folds out chops to make this more profitable than flat [ QUOTE ]


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I am not sure I like it..

Re-Raising 12k on the river,we are now clearly repping a king(and BTW I cannot see how villian can put us on exactly AK either ,as played anyway).

Since he is obviosly never folding AK himself,I also find it hard to believe he is folding ANY Kx hands?

Jason didnt say how much villian was playing behind,but besides puking if he shoves,then what?...but then again Strassa has been known to make some hero calls in the past [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Old hedge fund guy: "You got me,I play the board"

Strassa(new hedge fund guy): "Me too"

SF [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

If he's a hedge fund guy and not a "poker pro" I can also see him show up with KK here..

Ionno I fold..

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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If he's a hedge fund guy and not a "poker pro" I can also see him show up with KK here..

Ionno I fold..

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agreed, and he wouldnt fold KK to the allin either.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

i usually really love bluff raising the river, but here i really don't like it.

i'd fold i think he's got KK or KQ a lot

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

He has KK and he's not folding to a raise IMO.....maybe to a shove, but shoving really seems bad here. I fold this.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

muck faceup, then loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

strassa,
Does he know anything about your poker history? I think he'll never fold a K, but can be bluffing pretty often if he knows a little about your game.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

[ QUOTE ]
muck faceup, then loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves

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lol..

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
muck faceup, then loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves

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lol..

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Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

I think he might check out 2p2 once in a while, not sure though. I really wanted to fold river, but I thought the 1.5:1 ish was probably good enough to justify a call here (he might have a bunch of hands he tries to push me off a chop here). I thought he would probably CR or CF flop with AK, but maybe thats a dumb thought.

Raising the river came to mind, but he'll never fold a king here I think.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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how is wall street? id fold pre-flop and the river.

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folding preflop is good advice I think. I was playing pretty tight so my range is really narrow here preflop, so I'm probably better off folding even though I'm ahead of his range.

Wall street is great so far, lots of busy work but lots of learning also.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

[ QUOTE ]
muck faceup, then loosen your tie and roll up your sleeves

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i dont wear a tie to work.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

I don't get why you'd fold preflop. From what I've heard these games play super fast, loose, and bluffy.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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I don't get why you'd fold preflop. From what I've heard these games play super fast, loose, and bluffy.

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i'd call with 20k behind preflop, fwiw

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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I think he might check out 2p2 once in a while, not sure though. I really wanted to fold river, but I thought the 1.5:1 ish was probably good enough to justify a call here (he might have a bunch of hands he tries to push me off a chop here). I thought he would probably CR or CF flop with AK, but maybe thats a dumb thought.

Raising the river came to mind, but he'll never fold a king here I think.

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You chop with about 1/4-1/2 his range if he plays it in this manner. On the flop, q109 is right in your wheelhouse after cold calling pre. I think he would bet flop with any set, JJ maybe, and AK maybe. Any other airish hand he would probalby slow down b/c he is playing v. two people. When he chk calls flop, his range is most likely AK/KK/JJ/AQ/AJ or some goofier hand like j10, qj, a10 etc. Any hand stronger than that he prolly leads.

turn is a clear check. river he can push you off a chop with AQ/JJ, but he most likely bets more in the 5-6k range. He might also check those hands in the fear u have a king. 3500 was such a small bet I think you have to give him credit, he knows what odds he's laying you.

fwiw a call isn't terrible here and probably not a big mistake.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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I don't get why you'd fold preflop. From what I've heard these games play super fast, loose, and bluffy.

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i'm just putting the argument out there that my range is very narrow and predictable the way I was playing that night, that has me cold calling this 3-bet. so even if I'm ahead of his range, the fact that my hand is relatively face up makes it a fold preflop because my opponent will probably play very well against me

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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I don't get why you'd fold preflop. From what I've heard these games play super fast, loose, and bluffy.

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i'm just putting the argument out there that my range is very narrow and predictable the way I was playing that night, that has me cold calling this 3-bet. so even if I'm ahead of his range, the fact that my hand is relatively face up makes it a fold preflop because my opponent will probably play very well against me

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i don't think this matters enough. if you're sa ying that he's going to fold AA on 9 high, or KK on J 9 x or something, then you should be able to turn your hand into a bluff enough to show profit.

you've got psoition and you're deep with a hand that is capable of making a huge hand, so even if your range is like QQ-88 with AQs and AK and KK and AA sometimes, i think calling has to be fine, assuming position and even a decent read.

like i said, i'd call with 20k behind, but never with less than that (17.5k if tilted)

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't get why you'd fold preflop. From what I've heard these games play super fast, loose, and bluffy.

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i'm just putting the argument out there that my range is very narrow and predictable the way I was playing that night, that has me cold calling this 3-bet. so even if I'm ahead of his range, the fact that my hand is relatively face up makes it a fold preflop because my opponent will probably play very well against me

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He plays well against you if you also play predictably post-flop given your preflop range. Sounds like a fun spot to coldcall the bet with ATC and rep the hell out of something postflop... besides, who cares about poker monies when you're a wallstreeter? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get why you'd fold preflop. From what I've heard these games play super fast, loose, and bluffy.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm just putting the argument out there that my range is very narrow and predictable the way I was playing that night, that has me cold calling this 3-bet. so even if I'm ahead of his range, the fact that my hand is relatively face up makes it a fold preflop because my opponent will probably play very well against me

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i don't think this matters enough. if you're sa ying that he's going to fold AA on 9 high, or KK on J 9 x or something, then you should be able to turn your hand into a bluff enough to show profit.

you've got psoition and you're deep with a hand that is capable of making a huge hand, so even if your range is like QQ-88 with AQs and AK and KK and AA sometimes, i think calling has to be fine, assuming position and even a decent read.

like i said, i'd call with 20k behind, but never with less than that (17.5k if tilted)

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good post

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

make it $5K preflop... srsly.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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make it $5K preflop... srsly.

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man, that's a sweet idea!

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

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make it $5K preflop... srsly.

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ok ADZ

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

i like a smaller raise on the river...about 9k. I dont think he would call this w/o a king and he'd never fold a king for any ammount.

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

seems fine all the way to me. a little part of me wants to shove river, but i think its probably ill-advised in most situations

Re: 25-50 with a straddle
 

I like. I dont think he bet enough for you to fold here.