Nina Disagrees.
 

First level of a 6-max PS Donkament.
Villain is unknown.

Preflop:
Hero raises KJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in HJ. Villain calls in BB.

Flop: J98 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB check-raises, Hero calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero...

P.S. What converters actually convert donkaments properly?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

Bet.

I'm going to say he's got a ten, maybe even TsXs and is on a heavy draw.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

then why are you betting?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

Because he misses his draws more than he hits them?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

If he has a ten he's got a str8.

If I'm spending one more bet in this hand it would be to call a river bet.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

check behind. you have nothing to protect. but you might pick off a bluff or bad value bet from a worse hand on the river. assuming this guy has any bluff in him he could easily semi-bluff check-raise you on the turn.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

Oh god, I thought the 8 was a blank, didn't even see the 10 making a straight.

Check behind.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

what the [censored] is up with the flop call?

oh, betbetbet on the turn and make that the last bet invested in the pot.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
what the [censored] is up with the flop call?

oh, betbetbet on the turn and make that the last bet invested in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you mean we should 3-bet the flop? if we 3-ball and that turn comes then what?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

check and suicidecall river.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what the [censored] is up with the flop call?

oh, betbetbet on the turn and make that the last bet invested in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you mean we should 3-bet the flop? if we 3-ball and that turn comes then what?

[/ QUOTE ]
well I'd bet/fold given that turn, but not 3-betting the flop anyway sucks.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what the [censored] is up with the flop call?

oh, betbetbet on the turn and make that the last bet invested in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you mean we should 3-bet the flop? if we 3-ball and that turn comes then what?

[/ QUOTE ]
well I'd bet/fold given that turn, but not 3-betting the flop anyway sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising a safe turn is superior with this board.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

"Raising a safe turn is superior with this board. "

proof please

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what the [censored] is up with the flop call?

oh, betbetbet on the turn and make that the last bet invested in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you mean we should 3-bet the flop? if we 3-ball and that turn comes then what?

[/ QUOTE ]
well I'd bet/fold given that turn, but not 3-betting the flop anyway sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising a safe turn is superior with this board.

[/ QUOTE ]
assuming donk (I mean villain) is decent?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

Shouldn't we wonder about his turn check? Is that:

- A spade draw using the scary turn to get a free card?
- A ten thinking a turn bet will lead to a fold
- A ten waiting to check-raise?
- A pair or two-pair who hate the queen as well?

Doesn't a ten just bet and hopes that hero bites down on a stick and call down with his pair/two-pair? He can hardly expect hero to bet this board without a ten himself.

So, there are four scenarios (disregarding a stone bluff by BB), and in two (BB is on a spade draw, BB has a pair) betting is good, whereas in the other two (BB has a ten, BB has a two-pair) checking is good, because we're behind but we have outs.

In these spots, I tend to turn turtle and check behind and call river. It's maybe weak, but at least I get to showdown and I get to see what BB plays this way.

Confused but cheers anyway, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Smurf

PS: What is is Nina disagrees with?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Raising a safe turn is superior with this board. "

proof please

[/ QUOTE ]

I shouldn't have said this. I think it's just as ludicrous to say that one of these two options is clearly better than the other. It depends in part with what other hands I intend to play like this later as well as the villain though that doesn't say much. The two 2ers I checked this hand with were fine with raising the turn.

As for proof, if villain's range includes draws and pairs, I lose nothing when I'm in position and wait for the turn. I earn an extra small bet when he calls down to my turn pop (likely with any J and any 9/8 combo, possible with 9s). I miss a small bet when a scare card comes on the turn and I opt to call down and am still good.(I also save a small bet some of these times).

This assumes that villain fires all turns(obv. wrong but this turn card is a scare card) which I believe is a reasonable assumption. Am I missing something miles or are you just being snoody because my statement was so broadly full of crap?

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
PS: What is is Nina disagrees with?

[/ QUOTE ]

She obviously disagrees with the turn decision. That's why I posted it.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Raising a safe turn is superior with this board. "

proof please

[/ QUOTE ]

I shouldn't have said this. I think it's just as ludicrous to say that one of these two options is clearly better than the other. ... Am I missing something miles or are you just being snoody because my statement was so broadly full of crap?

[/ QUOTE ]
i was being dumb because you did the same thing.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PS: What is is Nina disagrees with?

[/ QUOTE ]

She obviously disagrees with the turn decision. That's why I posted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always thought Nina was male and simply named after that character from Tekken.

Re: Nina Disagrees.
 

b/f b/f

I usually puss out on the river bet. The turn b/f is important though.