UB weirdly rigged?
 

Over the last 35k-50k hands I can't remember having AA v KK or KK v AA preflop once. I've definitely been paying attention the last 20k hands, to the point where every time I'm dealt KK I root for someone else to have AA just so I can leave the twilight zone.

It also feels like there are way too many AA or KK v AK matchups. In one day alone (2-3k hands) I went to showdown with AK v AA three times, AK v KK twice, AA v AK once, and KK v AK twice.

In the same span of hands I've had QQ v AA and AA v QQ what seems like a normal rate.

This is mainly at 10 and 25nl. 10nl winrate =approximately 7.5ptbb/100 not counting 3-4ptbb/100 in rake over this span. 25nl winrate like .9 ptbb/100.

I'm a long time winner at 50nl with 300k+ hands at 3-5ptbb/100, but I refuse to play at bbj tables so I'm figuring out whether to move to PS or FT and grinding 10nl in the meantime.

Has anyone noticed the same thing or is this probably just a statistical blip?

Personally at this limit I'd be fine doing away with aavkk matchups because I really doubt my skill differential overcomes the huge rake.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[x] rigged

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

Just got coolered with KK vs. AA preflop today at UB. Just variance.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

ban

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[x] rigged

[/ QUOTE ]

just another reason to avoid this site like the plague

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

I once had AQ beat by KJ. Definately rigged. That would never happen live.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I once had AQ beat by KJ. Definately rigged. That would never happen live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you report? You were against a super-super user, obv.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

I played about 3k hands today at 10nl. Did not see one AA v KK matchup. Saw two KK v AK.

I'm going to update this after each session I play until I see one. Seriously, what is the probability of playing 20k hands and not even SEEING an AA v KK matchup? 6 max.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

sometimes when one of the players loses their cards get mucked at showdown and you might not see what they had.

You really think UB has somehow rigged their games to be so anti AA v KK for some strange reason?
Keep us updated. We need to get to the bottom of this terrible rigging they're doing to con all those NL10 players out of all their monieeezzzz!!!


as you can probably tell by the sarcasm in this thread, nobody thinks this is a situation at all. You probably just haven't noticed the AA vs. KK hands that flew right past you.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

It's definitely possible that I've missed hands that other people have played, I'm 5-7 tabling on UB. I have not missed hands that I have played, and I have both seen and been part of many AA v QQ, AA v AK, KK v AK and KK v QQ matchups over this span I am talking about.

I have played many hundreds of thousands of hands over the last 4 years at UB and never had any reason to think it was rigged. All of a sudden AA v KK matchups seem to have stopped at 10nl. I'm a whacko because I notice this? It's not like it hurts me; it probably helps me slightly, and I am on a massive heater over this span, winning 20/23 sessions and +40 buyins.

Now that I think about it, I don't normally play long sessions, so winning 20/23 must be extremely unlikely. At 50nl I win less than 60% of sessions. Maybe this AA v KK thing is just a freak occurence.

I will continue to update this until I see one.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, what is the probability of playing 20k hands and not even SEEING an AA v KK matchup? 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what the probability is, perhaps somebody else might work that out for you. However, even if you are correct and there has been no such match up there will obviously be a probability statistic that it will occur. Did you get that? that it WILL occur. So at some stage it WILL happen.

I guess in a few weeks you will post that you have seen AAvKK too often.

What possible friggin reason do you you think the site would have in rigging in such a dumb way. Normally you dumda$$ rigged theorists are telling us the sites deliberately ensure good hand v good hand. You're now saying they are rigging the other way.

Get a freaking life.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

tl/dr

And

[ QUOTE ]
I will continue to update this until I see one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

I'll summarize:

runner runner'd with a set
runner runner'd with a set
AA < AK even after ace on flop
set over set
AA < AQ
set< overpair
top full house< straight flush
set< overpair

Each hand played perfectly other than the top full house versus a straight flush hand where I (correctly) did not raise with my top set until the board paired.

Go back to Beginners Questions, loser.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll summarize:

runner runner'd with a set
runner runner'd with a set
AA < AK even after ace on flop
set over set
AA < AQ
set< overpair
top full house< straight flush
set< overpair

Each hand played perfectly other than the top full house versus a straight flush hand where I (correctly) did not raise with my top set until the board paired.

Go back to Beginners Questions, loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beginners Questions ??

I have played played poker seriously for the past 15 years both live and online. If you havn't experienced this before then you obviously havn't played very long. Welcome to poker varience boy. Have you told your mum about this - perhaps she will go and see the site owners and tell them not to be so nasty to you in future.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, what is the probability of playing 20k hands and not even SEEING an AA v KK matchup? 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

(1-8*3/52/51*4*3/50/49*5)^20000 = 1.2%

8*3/52/51 -> likelyhood you get one of these pairs
4*3/50/49*5 -> likelyhood one of your 5 opponents gets the other pair

I don't know if this calculation is correct, but there is also a chance AA vs KK will end before the showdown and you won't notice you were up against it.

And I really don't know why Ultimate would do this, because AA vs KK is the ultimate rakegenerater. Focus on your game and not on things you can't influence. You will ALWAYS find something out of the ordinary if you search long enough.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll summarize:

runner runner'd with a set
runner runner'd with a set
AA < AK even after ace on flop
set over set
AA < AQ
set< overpair
top full house< straight flush
set< overpair

Each hand played perfectly other than the top full house versus a straight flush hand where I (correctly) did not raise with my top set until the board paired.

Go back to Beginners Questions, loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beginners Questions ??

I have played played poker seriously for the past 15 years both live and online. If you havn't experienced this before then you obviously havn't played very long. Welcome to poker varience boy. Have you told your mum about this - perhaps she will go and see the site owners and tell them not to be so nasty to you in future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Downie, the whole point of posting those hh's was to show that I have seen everything under the sun and taken most of the worst beats possible and never entertained the idea that UB was rigged before. And I guarantee I've played more hands than you.

You strike me as one who parrots conventional wisdom but doesn't really know wtf he's talking about. Let me spell it out for you: Rikazak knows what he is talking about and would never deign to argue with someone who made a "zomg rigged" post and was serious. It's beneath him. "Ban" is a sufficient response.

Really, what kind of a moron argues with someone who thinks a particular site might be "rigged." It's like arguing with someone who thinks that they can see a pattern in roulette, or thinks 9-11 was an inside job, or that jesus is coming back.

Only a fool would take part. And on a side note, I rate the "probability statistic" of someone who uses the word "mum" being a connoisseur of cock to be pretty high.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, what is the probability of playing 20k hands and not even SEEING an AA v KK matchup? 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

(1-8*3/52/51*4*3/50/49*5)^20000 = 1.2%

8*3/52/51 -> likelyhood you get one of these pairs
4*3/50/49*5 -> likelyhood one of your 5 opponents gets the other pair

I don't know if this calculation is correct, but there is also a chance AA vs KK will end before the showdown and you won't notice you were up against it.

And I really don't know why Ultimate would do this, because AA vs KK is the ultimate rakegenerater. Focus on your game and not on things you can't influence. You will ALWAYS find something out of the ordinary if you search long enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the constructive post. I think the number of hands that this has been going on is closer to 40k, but a 1.2 percent chance over a 20k hand span means that this kind of thing happens relatively regularly.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, what is the probability of playing 20k hands and not even SEEING an AA v KK matchup? 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

(1-8*3/52/51*4*3/50/49*5)^20000 = 1.2%

8*3/52/51 -> likelyhood you get one of these pairs
4*3/50/49*5 -> likelyhood one of your 5 opponents gets the other pair

I don't know if this calculation is correct, but there is also a chance AA vs KK will end before the showdown and you won't notice you were up against it.

And I really don't know why Ultimate would do this, because AA vs KK is the ultimate rakegenerater. Focus on your game and not on things you can't influence. You will ALWAYS find something out of the ordinary if you search long enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the constructive post. I think the number of hands that this has been going on is closer to 40k, but a 1.2 percent chance over a 20k hand span means that this kind of thing happens relatively regularly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus you could have missed it/them, ie no showndown(s).

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Downie

[/ QUOTE ] LOL [ QUOTE ]
And I guarantee I've played more hands than you.

[/ QUOTE ] LOL [ QUOTE ]


someone who uses the word "mum" being a connoisseur of cock to be pretty high.

[/ QUOTE ] American? Of course you invented the English language. "mom" better? Next you will be telling me that "colour" should be spelled "color".

And Jesus never went away. He has long hair and plays in a big hat.

And this is not a rigged post???????????????????

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Each hand played perfectly other than the top full house versus a straight flush hand where I (correctly) did not raise with my top set until the board paired.

Go back to Beginners Questions, loser.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't know nor care about the chances of not being involved in AA vs. KK in 20k hands.
But I do know that your contention that you played all your hands perfectly is not correct in the slightest nor is it in the least bit relevant.
People who make automatic assumptions about how they played their hands perfectly usually aren't very good at poker imo.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a whacko because I notice this?

[/ QUOTE ]


you are no different than a lot of other players online or even in live-play who notice such things?
Some people are just naturally predisposed to finding reasons why the site might be rigged I think and it's a topic that continues to fascinate me.

I think it's kind of whacko to look at such isolated stuff and not just laugh at the silly variance of the game but you're not alone in getting suspicious about the way the cards run in poker that is almost certainly something not worth getting suspicious about.

How many 33 vs. 22 set over set's have you had? I was on the losing end of one of those yesterday but haven't been on the winning end of one for quite awhile. Should I start to worry?
I've also been noticing a lot more all-spade flops recently so I'm thinking that any chance to play 2 spades might be +EV.
At my local, live casino I've seen a lot of 4's on the flop lately. Even the dealers were commenting on it. Pretty obvious stuff. Seems that playing any 4 such as T4o or something stands a pretty good chance to flop trips.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

my homegame is rigged every few weeks so that a bunch of suckouts happen. i don't know who is doing it.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

FullTilt seems to be running just fine. 2nd hand of the tournament I'm playing my AA beats KK. 2 hands later, my KK loses to AA. Both times all-in preflop.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

I play thousands of tournies on all the sites ad I have always said Ultimate throws AA KK together all day long. Nearly every final table I have there it happens.

The other day at the second table 2 limpers I pop it with KK, SB all in, BB all in, 1st limper all in, I fold my KK. They had QQ KK AA. Just another ordinary day at UB. I considered myself lucky the AA didn't open raise or I would have been toast.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play thousands of tournies on all the sites ad I have always said Ultimate throws AA KK together all day long. Nearly every final table I have there it happens.

The other day at the second table 2 limpers I pop it with KK, SB all in, BB all in, 1st limper all in, I fold my KK. They had QQ KK AA. Just another ordinary day at UB. I considered myself lucky the AA didn't open raise or I would have been toast.

[/ QUOTE ]

So lets get this straight. You say UB throw AAvKK together all the time therefore rigged. OP says UB never throw AAvKK together therefore rigged. Why don't you and the OP sit at the same table then the world order should be restored.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

dude, it's obvious that UB is making up for the overabundance of AAvKK in the tourneys by yanking them from the NL10 games.

That way when you do a survey of AAvKK on the site as a whole it ends up looking normal.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Each hand played perfectly other than the top full house versus a straight flush hand where I (correctly) did not raise with my top set until the board paired.

Go back to Beginners Questions, loser.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't know nor care about the chances of not being involved in AA vs. KK in 20k hands.
But I do know that your contention that you played all your hands perfectly is not correct in the slightest nor is it in the least bit relevant.
People who make automatic assumptions about how they played their hands perfectly usually aren't very good at poker imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I specifically chose hands where my play is not really debatable so no one could say "lol you play bad guaranteed."
People are real [censored] about this kind of thing so I didn't want to give them any ammunition.

There are a million nasty beats and cold decks I could have posted where my play ranges from god awful to debatable.

Is there a specific hand you want to call me out on? Should I post them one at a time so the whole forum can rip them apart?

Here's the first hand. You say my contention that I played all but one of these hands perfectly is "not correct in the slightest." I'm really interested to know how I could improve my play in this hand.



Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP1 ($32.75)
MP2 ($20.15)
MP3 ($49.50)
CO ($19.90)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($65.95)</font>
<font color="#C00000">SB ($25.45)</font>
BB ($12.10)
UTG ($25.20)
UTG+1 ($16.50)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($61.15)</font>

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls $1.75, Button calls $1.75, Joey calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($7.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $42</font>, Button calls $30.

Turn: ($91.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $17.4 (All-In)</font>, Button calls $17.40.

River: ($0) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $126.55

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Button has Kd Ac (straight, ace high).
SB has (straight, ace high).
Hero has Jh Js (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Button wins $126.55. </font>

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

Honestly, LOL @ anyone who actually thinks they play hands "perfectly" in 100bb+ NL poker.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, LOL @ anyone who actually thinks they play hands "perfectly" in 100bb+ NL poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folded around to small blind who pushes for 100bb. You are in the big blind with AA and also 100bb. There isn't a perfect play in this situation?

You are a retard.

QED

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't remember having AA v KK or KK v AA preflop once...

...I went to showdown with AK v AA three times, AK v KK twice, AA v AK once, and KK v AK twice.


[/ QUOTE ]

It actually kinda sounds like you DO remember having these hands.

If I understand correctly, your issue is that ALL of you AA vs. KK hands go to showdown?

If this is the case, I have the solution.

1.) Stop playing fixe limit
2.) Press the "raise" button preflop

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, LOL @ anyone who actually thinks they play hands "perfectly" in 100bb+ NL poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folded around to small blind who pushes for 100bb. You are in the big blind with AA and also 100bb. There isn't a perfect play in this situation?

You are a retard.


[/ QUOTE ]
OK ,because you can come up with almost the only single hypothetical hand where there is only one play which is guaranteed the correct decision (from an +EV standpoint) that means you played all of your selected hands correctly? Wow, again you really miss the point. That's like saying because I can get a basketball through the hoop from 6 feet away, once, that I never miss a shot on the court.

MicroBob's belief that anyone who thinks they played all their (selected) hands perfectly means that you neither have an understanding of the game, nor of your own abilities, is really spot on.

I view your assertion with even more distrust than the old "I never tilt". In each case, particularly yours, it's nigh on certain you have a deficiency in your self judgement mechanism. By definition that makes it impossible you've played even a moderate number of hands 'perfectly'.

It's actually quite a ridiculous concept. And in asserting it you display such naivety that to take the rest of your post as gospel is folly.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

1k more hands.

4k total since thread started.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

1k more and then


Hand #47285303-437 at Hunlock Creek (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 20/Oct/07 00:39:47

bummert is at seat 0 with $12.65.
YaKiKa is at seat 1 with $10.79.
TyrantLizard is at seat 2 with $12.85.
crapon01 is at seat 3 with $16.62.
Lccxjcxj is at seat 4 with $8.75.
nelsonpete15 is at seat 5 with $9.97.
The button is at seat 5.

bummert posts the small blind of $.05.
YaKiKa posts the big blind of $.10.

bummert: -- --
YaKiKa: -- --
TyrantLizard: Qs 2d
crapon01: -- --
Lccxjcxj: -- --
nelsonpete15: -- --

Pre-flop:

TyrantLizard folds. crapon01 raises to $.40.
Lccxjcxj folds. nelsonpete15 re-raises to $1.
bummert folds. YaKiKa folds. crapon01 calls.

Flop (board: Qh Qc 3d):

crapon01 bets $1.50. nelsonpete15 calls.

Turn (board: Qh Qc 3d Th):

crapon01 checks. nelsonpete15 checks.

River (board: Qh Qc 3d Th 6s):

crapon01 checks. nelsonpete15 checks.



Showdown:

crapon01 shows Ks Kc.
crapon01 has Ks Kc Qh Qc Th: two pair, kings and queens.
nelsonpete15 shows Ad Ah.
nelsonpete15 has Ad Ah Qh Qc Th: two pair, aces and queens.


Hand #47285303-437 Summary:

$.25 is raked from a pot of $5.15.
nelsonpete15 wins $4.90 with two pair, aces and queens.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

I put you on my buddy list, gl.

Re: UB weirdly rigged?
 

Whew, it finally happened...I'll sleep sooo much better tonight than I have for the last week.