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If the Gold standard came back ...
I'm still learning this reading up on the GS subject but if it did come back, what would happen to housing prices and the stock market ? Would there be less $ in the economy ? Would it hurt it at first or no ? Would prices of goods drop to what they were pre 1933? Today's dollar is worth 4 cents in 1933. Would your house basically not go up in value or would it go up just a tad ?
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
If the gold standard came back I would move to Alaska and start panhandling cause it would be like finding dollar bills in the ground.
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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If the gold standard came back I would move to Alaska and start panhandling cause it would be like finding dollar bills in the ground. [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] If the gold standard came back I would move to Alaska and start panhandling cause it would be like finding dollar bills in the ground. [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? [/ QUOTE ] lololol. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] If the gold standard came back I would move to Alaska and start panhandling cause it would be like finding dollar bills in the ground. [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? [/ QUOTE ] I think so, and that's scary. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
Tornado,
I wanted to let you know that I will try to post some thoughts on inhalation and the gold standard when I get back from DC and have time and more than a phone to type on. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
borodog, thx.
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
Who Jamie Gold be president? Would he have a golden retriever?
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
what you dont like my idea?
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
"Inhalation". Ahahaha. Auto-correct FTL.
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
ttt
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
BUMP
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
Dude, your house would still be worth the same as it is now. You will have one house worth of house.
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do.
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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BUMP [/ QUOTE ] Tornado, I see your bump, but I have to beg off. Have to finish cleaning up the house and get packed (my wife is driving down from DC tomorrow, but I have to be in Wilmington; doesn't that suck? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ). Sorry. In lieu of me writing something, please have a listen to this scintilating lecture by Joseph Salerno about the myths of the gold standard and how it might be returned to: Video: http://mises.org/MultiMedia/video/Salerno/Salerno10.wmv Audio only: http://mises.org/MultiMedia/mp3/Salerno/10.mp3 1.5 hours. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Correct, one does have the clear edge of being inexhaustable. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Correct, one does have the clear edge of being inexhaustable. [/ QUOTE ] Both are inexhaustible. Do you see why? |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Correct, one does have the clear edge of being inexhaustable. [/ QUOTE ] Both are inexhaustible. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] Wait, you mean to tell me that when I trade an ounce of gold for some other stuff, it doesn't instantly vanish into thin air? I thought conservation of mass didn't apply to money. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Correct, one does have the clear edge of being inexhaustable. [/ QUOTE ] Both are inexhaustible. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] Wait, you mean to tell me that when I trade an ounce of gold for some other stuff, it doesn't instantly vanish into thin air? I thought conservation of mass didn't apply to money. [/ QUOTE ] Cute, but the point he (whomever Boro was replying too) was correct. We don't get to play both sides. We trade some gold for food, eat the food and no longer have the gold. On a larger scale, a government uses some money to fund a war, they can't use more then the amount of gold they have (LDO). On a world scale gold can't be exhausted, but for one particular group it certainly can, which I'm assuming was the point he was making. Not that any of that is bad, maybe having tighter restrictions on money and not being able to simply print more might encourage fiscal responsibility. Still, his point is a good one. Cody |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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Cute, but the point he (whomever Boro was replying too) was correct. We don't get to play both sides. We trade some gold for food, eat the food and no longer have the gold. [/ QUOTE ] Well, yeah. If we had a bottomless pit of gold, then nobody would want to sell us stuff for it. [ QUOTE ] On a larger scale, a government uses some money to fund a war, they can't use more then the amount of gold they have (LDO). [/ QUOTE ] As martha says, "that's a good thing." And we're starting to see the "bottomless pit" effect, as the value of the US dollar continues to drop like a rock. [ QUOTE ] On a world scale gold can't be exhausted, but for one particular group it certainly can, which I'm assuming was the point he was making. [/ QUOTE ] Well, that's a pointless point. Because "one particular group" can exhaust its supply of fiat currency, too. You can discover this empirically. Just keep spending and see if the fed replenishes your bank account. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
On the plus side, we may eventually get to carry around little pieces of paper with cool guilloche patterns, pictures of dead white guys, and (most importantly) LOTS OF ZEROES!!
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/dinar11.gif |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
[ QUOTE ] As martha says, "that's a good thing." And we're starting to see the "bottomless pit" effect, as the value of the US dollar continues to drop like a rock. [/ QUOTE ] It's almost as if I was making this same point when I said: [ QUOTE ] Not that any of that is bad, maybe having tighter restrictions on money and not being able to simply print more might encourage fiscal responsibility. Still, his point is a good one. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, that's a pointless point. Because "one particular group" can exhaust its supply of fiat currency, too. You can discover this empirically. Just keep spending and see if the fed replenishes your bank account. [/ QUOTE ] Being intellectually dishonest or just missing the point? A certain group, in this case, obviously refers to the people printing the money, not the citizens therein. A government can just keep printing away and never run out, though certainly they'll suffer as a result. Cody |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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And we're starting to see the "bottomless pit" effect, as the value of the US dollar continues to drop like a rock. [/ QUOTE ] Which is a good thing for the US as itīs debt to outside creditors is in USD? |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
Look at the upside - it's great for tourism. The lowest paid Scandinavians are making like $20-22 an hour these days. Combined with the fall of US real estate prices, you'll be seeing lots of Scandinavian grocery store cashiers with amazing summer homes in the states.
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Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
The following link has absolutely nothing to do with politics, but is a humerous video loosely related to the gold standard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwNGU |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] And we're starting to see the "bottomless pit" effect, as the value of the US dollar continues to drop like a rock. [/ QUOTE ] Which is a good thing for the US as itīs debt to outside creditors is in USD? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, one good thing. Don't worry about all the negative effects. And don't worry about that pesky fallacy of aggregation. Some people have debt, and they're benefitting from this one aspect of inflation. But lots of other people are getting killed by it. And, of course, it disproportionately hurts the poor, who keep a higher percentage of their assets in cash. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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Look at the upside - it's great for tourism. The lowest paid Scandinavians are making like $20-22 an hour these days. Combined with the fall of US real estate prices, you'll be seeing lots of Scandinavian grocery store cashiers with amazing summer homes in the states. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] Well, that's a pointless point. Because "one particular group" can exhaust its supply of fiat currency, too. You can discover this empirically. Just keep spending and see if the fed replenishes your bank account. [/ QUOTE ] Being intellectually dishonest or just missing the point? A certain group, in this case, obviously refers to the people printing the money, not the citizens therein. A government can just keep printing away and never run out, though certainly they'll suffer as a result. Cody [/ QUOTE ] They? "The government" certainly suffers a lot less from this than the people who have no control over the printing press. A guy counterfeiting in his garage can cause inflation. As long as he gets away with it, is he really "suffering" from the inflation???? |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. paper money has the clear edge because the cost of production to keep up with economic growth is far less expensive. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. paper money has the clear edge because the cost of production to keep up with economic growth is far less expensive. [/ QUOTE ] You've begged a question there. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. paper money has the clear edge because the cost of production to keep up with economic growth is far less expensive. [/ QUOTE ] You've begged a question there. [/ QUOTE ] No I havent. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. paper money has the clear edge because the cost of production to keep up with economic growth is far less expensive. [/ QUOTE ] You've begged a question there. [/ QUOTE ] No I havent. [/ QUOTE ] Of course you have. You're just assuming that there's some vital need to "keep up with economic growth". There isn't. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
yes, there is. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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Look at the upside - it's great for tourism. The lowest paid Scandinavians are making like $20-22 an hour these days. Combined with the fall of US real estate prices, you'll be seeing lots of Scandinavian grocery store cashiers with amazing summer homes in the states. [/ QUOTE ] I actually happen to be Norwegian, going to school in North Dakota where prices are low on almost everything. The strengthening of Kroner (the currency I get my student loan and scholarship in) compared to USD is more than welcomed [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] The problem for the Scandinavian grocery store cashiers though is that 75-80% of the 25$ they make an hour is going to the government one way or another. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. paper money has the clear edge because the cost of production to keep up with economic growth is far less expensive. [/ QUOTE ] This is silly. There is no need for the money supply to "keep up with the growth of the economy." The entire 19th century was a sustained period of falling prices and strong economic growth, except during war, when governments drove prices up via monetary inflation to divert productive capacity away from serving consumers to producing war materials. The natural action of a market economy with a stable commodity money is for prices to fall as productivity increases. I.e. the purchasing power of money goes up, making consumers wealthier. There is no problem for businessmen to make profits with steadily falling prices, since the steadily falling prices are due to increases in productivity in the first place, i.e. their costs are going down. Entire industries (consumer electronics and computers, for example) have experienced decades of continuously plunging prices. Oh noes! How do they stay in business? Plunging costs. Furthermore, as the purchasing power of money goes up, there is more profit in producing the commodity money, gold and/or silver. Hence there is a natural market incentive to increase the money supply in a manner that is in harmony with the economy. The converse is true as well. If a huge gold strike were to significantly increase the supply of gold in a short time (which is pretty much impossible given the current world stock, but we'll take it in arguendo), the purchasing power of gold would fall, and there would be an incentive to shift resources out of gold production. Shockingly, gold is a commodity like any other commodity, and the market works to increase its supply when the demand for it increases and decrease its supply when the demand for it falls. Who'd've thunk it. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Most of golds value derives from the same reason the dollar bills in your pocket do. [/ QUOTE ] However one has the ability to be created out of thin air, and one does not. Even if they only have value for the same reason, seems like one has a clear edge here. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. paper money has the clear edge because the cost of production to keep up with economic growth is far less expensive. [/ QUOTE ] This is silly. There is no need for the money supply to "keep up with the growth of the economy." The entire 19th century was a sustained period of falling prices and strong economic growth, except during war, when governments drove prices up via monetary inflation to divert productive capacity away from serving consumers to producing war materials. The natural action of a market economy with a stable commodity money is for prices to fall as productivity increases. I.e. the purchasing power of money goes up, making consumers wealthier. There is no problem for businessmen to make profits with steadily falling prices, since the steadily falling prices are due to increases in productivity in the first place, i.e. their costs are going down. Entire industries (consumer electronics and computers, for example) have experienced decades of continuously plunging prices. Oh noes! How do they stay in business? Plunging costs. Furthermore, as the purchasing power of money goes up, there is more profit in producing the commodity money, gold and/or silver. Hence there is a natural market incentive to increase the money supply in a manner that is in harmony with the economy. The converse is true as well. If a huge gold strike were to significantly increase the supply of gold in a short time (which is pretty much impossible given the current world stock, but we'll take it in arguendo), the purchasing power of gold would fall, and there would be an incentive to shift resources out of gold production. Shockingly, gold is a commodity like any other commodity, and the market works to increase its supply when the demand for it increases and decrease its supply when the demand for it falls. Who'd've thunk it. [/ QUOTE ] You are assuming perfect elasticity of gold supply, which doesnt exist, whodve thunk that you would make simplifying assumptions that are wrong, but essential to your argument. stick to physics |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
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The entire 19th century was a sustained period of falling prices and strong economic growth, except during war [/ QUOTE ] http://www.uri.edu/artsci/ecn/mead/I...ation_long.gif As you can see, the value of a dollar was much less stable when the currency was backed by gold. There were several periods of high inflation (1830, 1845, 1875) that do not correspond with wars or periods of government expansion. You'll also note that the currency during the last 30 years is much more stable than currency during the 1800's. I don't know enough about economics to say for sure, I would prefer a consistent but predictable rate of inflation over the wild swings of the early 1800's. My guess is the reason currency has increased in stability in the last thirty years is that the science of economics has improved rapidly and the data the Fed has to work with has improved over the last thirty years. The govt. and private sources spends tens of millions of dollars to generate economic data, which gives the Fed better information to make decisions. |
Re: If the Gold standard came back ...
So, say Paul is elected President and doesn't abolish the Federal Reserve, but legalizes competition. Would people hop on alternate currencies, gold or otherwise? Is there a way for a fiat currency to be valued without the force of a government?
So with the income tax gone, the individual would be paid however and buy stuff however, does the government start taking these alternate currencies? Further, with a Paul presidency, troops are out of the Middle East quickly. Does OPEC continue to sell oil in dollars? If there are no income taxes to be paid and no oil to be bought, would a Paul presidency cause huge devaluation of the Federal Reserve dollar? Or do countries with large amounts of US dollars like China somehow prevent this when the US turns non-interventionist? |
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