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AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
Villain is 23/14/10 but only 44 hands, no reads.
Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $10.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com SB ($985.00) BB ($997.00) UTG ($695.00) Hero ($1120.00) Button ($1146.00) Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $30. Flop: ($85) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $70</font>, Hero calls $70. Turn: ($225) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $225</font>, Hero calls $225. River: ($675) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $672 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $672. Final Pot: $2019 I am really feel lost in this hand. Here are my questions: 1) I am commited on this flop? 2) Should I fold in this hand and if yes, where should I fold? |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I think it's alright considering your lack of read and that his aggression factor is 10. With a better read, it changes.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
Well, you beat AK, and the low gutshots missed!
He really bet this pot like he wants to get all in bad. I guess I'd fold river, as he played it, but I would have shoved if he checked, and would have called most any other river bet without much hesitation. I probably put him on AK and call sometimes, though. Can't really see getting away earlier, without a more specific read, although him setting himself up so nicely for that river bet should raise some alarm bells. |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I should also say that just raising the flop and letting him pay you off with Kx/maybe worse can be a good way to play too, especially if you make that play a lot, but the dry board and WA/WB spot do make playing it slower an appealing option.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
Say hi to QT baabbbbyyyy.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
Looks like 55 or 99 to me. When he full pots the turn I think I am tempted to fold there. If I dont fold there I think the river is an easy fold.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like 55 or 99 to me. When he full pots the turn I think I am tempted to fold there. If I dont fold there I think the river is an easy fold. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
It could also be KJ but I just dont see a worse hand he is betting for value or a semibluff that misses.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I dont think AK will be quite often in his range, cause TAGs usually 3 bet with AK OOP.
So, as I see there are two lines here: 1) Just call flop with AA and fold to river agression. 2) Raise flop, check turn and bet/call river. I personally prefer the second option especially against an almost unknown opponent, because we are not really shure is he capable to make 3 barrel bluffs, if we just call, he has almost free chance to hit his two pair, set or straight and we wont know nothing about were we are (like in this situation). |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Looks like 55 or 99 to me. When he full pots the turn I think I am tempted to fold there. If I dont fold there I think the river is an easy fold. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I think it is too weak to call on flop in order to just fold on turn against almost unknown and potentially agressive opponent. People make pot size bets not only for value. |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Looks like 55 or 99 to me. When he full pots the turn I think I am tempted to fold there. If I dont fold there I think the river is an easy fold. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I think it is too weak to call on flop in order to just fold on turn against almost unknown and potentially agressive opponent. People make pot size bets not only for value. [/ QUOTE ] HOWEVER people should have to work much harder than this to get full value from the weakest parts of your calling range. Folding should be default here IMO. (Obviously not against aggro opponents, but people should have to prove themselves competent and aggro before getting paid off like nobody's business.) |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
The turnbet on that J really sucks. He could even do this w JJ considering his preflop range. 14 PFR guys don't necessarily reraise JJ pre. He could also be "semi-bluff-donking" QT.
I think I fold the turn, it just looks as if he has it. Agree w/ Big_Jim on river action. |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I'd fold the river, his line is really strong. I think the only hand you beat here is AK and I don't think he has it that often
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I can`t fault looking him up although I do think calling the flop and folding the turn is the best play in a vacuum. Calling the turn and folding the river is ok but once he bets the turn like this you`ll be facing a river push like 80% of the time.
Raising the flop again is not a good play unless you have a specific reason to. |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
Mmm. Hate the river spot, and obv you could make a case for folding the turn. Nothing has changed on the river, so he's got to expect to be looked up here a fair bit after you call the turn. I agree that you pretty much only beat AK if it's a value bet, so calling here means that you have to think that there's a big chance villain just got way out of line. Have you noticed if he usually bets pot or not? The full pot on the turn was perfect for letting him shove the river, but I don't know if I give unknowns credit for noticing this.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I absolutely dont understand the line of just calling the flop in order to fold on turn in exception against a total nit.
First of all, I think villain has a little chance of having a K in this spot (he probably would reraise with AK pf + there is no sence for TAG to bet TP for value OOP against tight pf raiser). So, the most probable hands I see here are 55, 99 - 6 combos (in this case he wants us to raise) and JTs, QTs - 8 combos(in this case he wants us to fold). If he has 99 and 55 the flop raise will give us all needed information about his hand, there is no need to call and wait for turn (although we have a little chance of spiking an ace on turn). But at least half of the time he will have a draw here and by calling we give him an almost free chance to hit his draw + we put our hand under the danger of firing the second and even third barrel with busted draw. Anyway I cant fold on turn here. By calling on flop we didnt show much and he may easily do this turn bet here with JT, or still possible AK, KQ and other weak holdings. So, at this moment I find Big Jim's point of view the most reasonable. |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I'll preface this by saying that I'm just back from having a few drinks.
Your logic makes no sense to me. I have no idea why you think him leading the flop means that he has little chance of having a king (ignoring later streets). You've suddenly added in the fact that you're a "tight preflop raiser", although you didn't see fit to mention this before. You've also only played 44 hands with this guy, so neither or you really has a clue how the other plays. You don't even have any proof that he's giving any thought to how you play. I also think that saying he's going to have a draw "at least half the time" on this board is ridiculous. For me the crunch is when he full pots the turn out of nowhere. If he has always bet pot then it's meaningless, but most people don't bet full pot here. This combined with the river bet really makes me want to fold the river. |
Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
I would fold the river, and I think folding the turn is best even though I probably wouldn't since i'm too stubborn. I think you see a monster waaaaaaaay more than you see some random K or 67/JT type hands.
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Re: AA ip, usual raised pot, dry board, TAG donks big all the way
imo he has 55 or he's valuestacking himself... seems like a pretty [censored] board to donk a set/two pair
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