5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

villain is 23/20/5 so far, but havent really seen him run a big bluff, and have actually seen him miss some thinnish v-bets. BT is a 52/22 fish.What's the best plan for the river?

Poker Stars, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: $1,072.75
BTN: $1,372
Hero (SB): $1,866
BB: $1,025
UTG: $1,868.20
MP: $2,019

Pre-Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $30</font>, Hero calls $25, BB calls $20

Flop: ($90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($90) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $60</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $190</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $130

River: ($470) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

i think c/f is fine here tbh

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

what about bet folding $300

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

i think bet small/fold &gt; c/f &gt; w/e else you can think of

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

I can see a turn fold even though it would be really tough to make in the moment..

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

I can't see a turn fold.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

5 is very aggressive. If you check the river it seems like he's betting too high a percentage of the hands he could have that you beat to c/f. Most of the hands you beat that don't bet will be going for showdown and will call if you bet.

I think bet/fold or check/call.

Given how aggressive he is postflop I don't think calling the turn and then c/fing a river that doesn't fill you up is very good.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
5 is very aggressive. If you check the river it seems like he's betting too high a percentage of the hands he could have that you beat to c/f. Most of the hands you beat that don't bet will be going for showdown and will call if you bet.

I think bet/fold or check/call.

Given how aggressive he is postflop I don't think calling the turn and then c/fing a river that doesn't fill you up is very good.

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his AF is more a product of his not flatcalling very often than betting all the time. And someone who doesnt valuebet thin has like 0 hands in his range to v-bet on this river that i beat. and what hand does he raise on the turn for value that pays off a v-bet now that im ahead of?

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
what about bet folding $300

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to get called by what though? Im trying to think of a hand &lt;22 here that he can value-raise on this turn and pay off on the river.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

I definitely like a check and then if the 23/20 folds I muck it. He's not going to try and make a move on the big time fish adn you.

I can't see folding the turn.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

Fgators the fish folded the turn

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

JESUS CHRISt get it INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
JESUS CHRISt get it INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

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you could start by naming 1 hand he raises the turn for value, then stacks off with on the river that i beat. we can go from there

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

He prob has QQ/77/44 and he'd vb those pretty small like 1/2 psb-ish. So c/r ai if he can fold those hands.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
JESUS CHRISt get it INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[/ QUOTE ]

you could start by naming 1 hand he raises the turn for value, then stacks off with on the river that i beat. we can go from there

[/ QUOTE ]

bloooooff

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

calling isnt cool anymore, a lot of players are making a "I are agressive" raise with KdQx here to get control of the hand take a showdown if they want whatever...

I don't think your running the game necessary to 3bet/call the turn for value, (not saying its optimal, few do)

I'd play it as you did and C/C the river up to about 90% pot, anymore would get sticky and I'm not sure but I lean towards a solid C/C because he can VB worse I think, and run a 2 street semibluff enough to justify, especially because you "can" have Ad or 56 or other garbage that wants to give up now.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

i think you have to c/c

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

How often does villain bet his flush draws on the flop with the fish to act behind him? I think it's a fair amount. At least enough to weight his turn raise more towards a semi-bluff.

shrug.

I check call most river bets.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

OP,
River is an easy c/f IMO. I think turn is more interesting and more complicated.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
OP,
River is an easy c/f IMO. I think turn is more interesting and more complicated.

[/ QUOTE ]
TBH, I think the exact opposite is true. The river is an easy C/C, and the turn isn't interesting at all unless you have the right history or are playing at the right table to 3bet for value, which should be incredibly rare.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

You could be right but if so villain is badly misplaying this hand IMO.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

He pays off with Q-good kicker and he doesn't value bet it himself. I don't see why he doesn't raise that on the turn. He bets river with missed draws and weak combo draws.

Generally the high aggression makes me want to c/c, but maybe that's not best with your read.

If you can look into his soul and know he doesn't bluff enough (or maybe even have a worse hand often enough based on the turn) or value bet thin enough then check/fold will be best. I don't have the time now, but it shouldn't be hard to do the math on the river between c/c and c/f.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

im c/c here

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

c/f is fine, depends a little on the fishies specific tendancies though.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

c/c.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

the turn isn't nec a value raise... how many suited cards without Qd are in his cold calling range and not in his 3 betting range? can he make this semibluff (obv the fish cant call this unless he is a COMPLETE idiot to call it off here w/ like A9 or something, so i don't think that goes into consideration as much as most people think in these spots).

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/c

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Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

how can you say whether we should c/c or c/f without saying how much he bet?

Surely nobody folds to a 1/4 pot bet, and nobody calls a shove?

I'd probably call up to a 3/4 bet most of the time, and fold to full pot+. If it fell in between, god help us all.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

As for leading:

If the guy is a nit, and you can confidently fold, you can block. But if he's a nit, it probably has to be a pretty small block to be better than c/fing, since his hand range is already so strong.

If the game is really amped up, I guess you could fake block, but mehhh. I think his hand range is too strong to want to get the chips in here.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

catcher,

good posts in this thread.

Re-raising the turn could be right in an amped up heads up match, or if you guys have a lot of history, but in general, reraising leaves you blowing yourself off your hand or getting it in only when a big dog. Remember, he has no reason not to believe you have a flush, all you did was check to the raiser.

Calling, meanwhile, has the benefits of implied odds, potentially a free showdown (bluffing opportunity?) if a scare card falls, a cheaper showdown, and maybe a chance to get away.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

seems reasonable he'd be bluffing with Ad on the turn, and if it goes to the river he has to figure he has no showdown value so he'd need to bluff again

seems like a fairly clear c/c, but wtv

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
seems like a fairly clear c/c, but wtv

[/ QUOTE ]
Explain plz, for my benefit.

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a fairly clear c/c, but wtv

[/ QUOTE ]
Explain plz, for my benefit.

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since he's bluffing with the Ad on turn with such a high freq he's saying

Re: 5/10 turned my set and i kind of want to c/f river =(
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a fairly clear c/c, but wtv

[/ QUOTE ]
Explain plz, for my benefit.

[/ QUOTE ]

since he's bluffing with the Ad on turn with such a high freq he's saying

[/ QUOTE ]
aw [censored] I thought he was still talking about the turn