Need good plastic cards
 

I've bought two decks of plastic cards - Vegas and KEM Arrow - but both decks are so flimsy and feel cheap. I've played with thicker plastic cards in games before, but don't know what kind they were. What are the thicker plastic cards? Are KEM Casino cards thicker than KEM Arrow?

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

For good playing cards reviews, click on:
Home Poker Tourney

DAL NEGRO and MODIANO are the thickest plastic playing cards that I know of.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

The Kem Arrow is probably the best deck of cards you can get. But if you want thicker more paper like cards try Del Negro or Modiano.

I suggest you spend some more time with the Kems though, once you get used to them you won't want to use any other card except for maybe Copag.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I've only ever used COPAG's. Love 'em. I think the design is great, they feel really good, durable. You really have to try to break them to inflict any kind of damage at all.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

No substitute for KEM Arrow cards for me, but Copags are decent.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Thanks for the responses, all. I appreciate the help.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I've got KEM, Dal Negro & Copags and my local cardroom uses Modiano's. My favorite by far is the KEMs!!

But if you want a thicker card then the Dals are nice. My Copags have really faded out colors which is typical but do have a great feel.

Personally not a fan of Modianos, really flimsy and prone to warping.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I have all the brands and prefer to use the Dal Negro's. Love em...

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have all the brands and prefer to use the Dal Negro's. Love em...

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Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Kems are nice. They are thin, which makes them easy to shufle, but makes some people think they are flimsy.

Copags are nice, and have beautiful backs, but the colors are less briliant than other decks.

I use Desjgn cards in my home game, perhaps since they were designed by my good friend Jason, but also because they have beautiful court cards and pip placements (which I admit are not for everyone).
http://www.ssb8.net/users/55179/dsp_...1184201318.jpg

At less than $8 per deck, they are also a real bargain in plastic cards.

http://stores.ebay.com/Desjgn-Playing-Cards

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Ask your friend Jason to make these in bridge size and to go back to a standard pip layout.

We've played two sessions with these cards. We love the feel of them, like the overall look and design concept, the colors are wonderful, but the funky pip pattern has got to go. Bridge vs. poker we can live with, but you'd be surprised how much the funky pip pattern (the 4 is especially terrible) affects the readability and recognizability of the board.

These cards would rule the world if he fixed the pips.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I just ordered a setup of the Desjgn cards to check them out.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Go with Gemaco plastic cards. They're legit.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I dunno, I kinda like the weird pips

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ask your friend Jason to make these in bridge size and to go back to a standard pip layout.

We've played two sessions with these cards. We love the feel of them, like the overall look and design concept, the colors are wonderful, but the funky pip pattern has got to go. Bridge vs. poker we can live with, but you'd be surprised how much the funky pip pattern (the 4 is especially terrible) affects the readability and recognizability of the board.

These cards would rule the world if he fixed the pips.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is working on a new project, and I do believe he is doing bridge size with a more normal pip placement.

I indeed was surprised how much I depended on the pip placement the first few hands played with these. I become accustomed to them after an orbit or two, but I understand why some need time to adjust. I did not realize how much my brain used the pip placement, I thought I simply read the index... wrong!

Even if you hate them they are a nice conversation piece and have beautiful and unique artwork. Some people dig the odd pip placement, some people can't adjust. Either way, I think most people will be happy when they see Jason's next project.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Everyone's first inclination when open a deck of KEM cards is the same as yours. Everyone's second inclination after using them for a while is to love them.

And for your two cents on my inclinations: bridge size, jumbo index.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
I indeed was surprised how much I depended on the pip placement the first few hands played with these. I become accustomed to them after an orbit or two, but I understand why some need time to adjust. I did not realize how much my brain used the pip placement, I thought I simply read the index... wrong!

Even if you hate them they are a nice conversation piece and have beautiful and unique artwork. Some people dig the odd pip placement, some people can't adjust. Either way, I think most people will be happy when they see Jason's next project.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking forward to that. We really liked the cards, but they're banned from our game until they have a standard pip design.

It's not a question of being "able" to adjust. The question is why we should even be *asked* to adjust. Function over form. In this case, the potential for beautiful, functional, cards is there... hopefully the next iteration will nail it.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Go to Sam's Club. They have a large box of plastic "vegas" style cards for sale cheap. They are avalible in red and blue decks. Im not sure how many decks are in a box. At least 20.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I like Dal Negro, but my favorite is a nicely broken in Copag deck.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ask your friend Jason to make these in bridge size and to go back to a standard pip layout.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the point? Then they'd be like all the other cards.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

i bought some kem arrows and after 3 weeks of normal use about 10 of the cards had tears on the sides. i sent them into kem (as per their replacement guarantee) and never got a new deck. time to try copag.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ask your friend Jason to make these in bridge size and to go back to a standard pip layout.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the point? Then they'd be like all the other cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the artistic pip placements are not for everyone, but I play with them weekly in a game with a lot of new players and no serious complaints. After a few hands people adjust.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I went from Bicycle plastic coated to Copags about 2 years ago. I have no issues whatsoever with Copags. People always say that copags are an alternative to Kems as if Kems set the bar for plastic cards. With me it's more like if I can't get a hold of Copags, I'll settle for Kems. I hear that Copags tend to fade over time ..... I haven't had that problem as of yet.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I'm surprised so many people here are claiming that KEMs are the best. I think that used to be true, but they've gone downhill while at the same time other card companies have offered better-and-better cards and lots of options not available from KEM.

Dal Negro and Modiano are more paper like, as in they are thicker and have more texture. I suppose that if your hands are too week to turn a doornob then those cards might be hard to shuffle. I can't personally imagine a deck of plastic cards being hard to shuffle because they are too thick. These companies have also recently offered acetate cards. The actete cards from these manufacturers are the new cadillac of poker cards IMHO.

Desjgn cards- I recently played in a home game where these were used. I had heard of them, but never gave them much thought. Well I bought some after I played with them because I was very surprised by how good they felt and more than that how well they handled.

I never once got confused because of the pip layout.

They are a tad slick for my taste, but the slick texture didn't translate to slippery cards, so I can forgive them for that.

They also offer a veriety of colors that I like very much.

For me, I like very stiff, thick, heavily-textured cards, and you can't get any better than Dal Negro in that regard (with Madiano being in the same category). But if the question is, "I'm looking for good plastic cards," I think you should try Desjgn. They handle so well and meet at a nice middle ground between the flimsy KEMs and Copags, and the stiff Dal Negro and Modianos.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I forgot to add that the desjgn cards have the best looking picture card artwork of any cards I've ever seen.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Can someone please explain what exactly the big difference in the pip layout is? Not sure why people are concerned about it...I think I may give them a try, although I would prefer bridge size...

Thanks

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

The Desjgn 4 has the pips in a dense straight line, just like the 3, whereas a standard 4 has the pips arranged on the corner of a square. Several of the other arrangements are different too (the 8, 9, and 10 if I remember right) but for me the 4 is the worst one.

You may be surprised how many people are used to seeing a "bunch" of pips in a straight line and "knowing" that that is a trey. For me personally (but apparently not for others) this is a big deal. It makes the board difficult to scan quickly and it really messes with my subconcious pattern matching which has apparently become auto-trained to recognize the pip patterns.

It's especially bad when the dealer is flipping over the river and there's that moment before you can read the numeral but can easily see the pips.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Thanks for the comments and opinions on Desjgn Playing Cards. I am not meaning to thread-jack here with this post.

It is true that the pip patterns will not be for everyone, but out of all of the feedback I've received since Desjgns were introduced the majority has been very positive and many have said that like the pip patterns and really hasn't affected one way or another their play.

During my design process and information gathering, I was surprised to find there are 3 catagories of poker players and how they view their community cards:

1 - Pip Readers: Those that know their rank of card by glancing at the pip patterns.
2 - Index Glancers: Those that simply view the index. (I am one of them and I am finding more and more players are in this category than the first.)
3 - Pip Counters: Those that count the # of pips on the card. (There are a few of these players out there!)

OutofCrown your points are valid and appreciated. I am currently reviewing feedback on the 3 and 4 over the many months and weighing the positives vs. negatives.

Best regards,
Jason
Desjgn Playing Cards
www.classicplayingcards.com

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

I am but one voice, and if I'm in the significant minority ... well, the market will eventually sort that all out.

I will say this though... prior to seeing these cards, if you *asked* me whether I was a pip reader or an index reader, I would have said index reader and would have been hard pressed to even tell you what the pip patterns were for the various cards.

I didn't realize how built-in the pattern recognition was until I saw a different set of pip patterns and kept mistaking the 4 for a 3. I wonder how many of the "index readers" you asked would discover they were actually pip recognizers when faced with a real game situation.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Why are you Muppets playing a 3 or 4 in the first place? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Desjgn cards are outstanding!

JC

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone please explain what exactly the big difference in the pip layout is? Not sure why people are concerned about it...I think I may give them a try, although I would prefer bridge size...

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, here is the controversial "4" and the intersting "7" comapred to the gold standard, the Kem Arrrow. Note that the Desjgn has a more ruby red, more decorative font, and a more artistic pip placement for the "7" (and a more controversial pip placement for the "4").

I didn't realize it until now, but one of the things that make the Desjgn cards stand out is the ultra-white cardstock. Note the Kems look slightly yellow by comparison.

http://www.saltlakepoker.com/images/desjgnvkem.jpg

Well, this is my Friday night, what are you doing?

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]

Well, this is my Friday night, what are you doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading your post, watching Hawaii gack away my bet and their splash on national TV.

By the way, my desjgn cards arrived in the mail yesterday, and I really like the feel of the cards and the bright color contrast.

The court card and suit design is stylish. Close enough that there is no doubt as to what they are, different enough to be distinct.

As to the placement, I have to get them in a game to tell you if it's a problem.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Sorry to hear about the 5-0. I am still quite bored tonight, so here is a graphical comparison of all the cards in my card room. If anything the Desjgn are white, white, white! The Copag 4-color are especially disappointing. I mean if you are going to make a 4-color deck and charge the ungodly amount ($35/2 decks?) I paid for them, at least make the colors look slightly better than a really bad photocopy.

BTW, I really dig the backs on the Copag plastic cards. Very nice! Too bad their colors are so faded. Compared to some of the others they are almost pastel.
http://www.saltlakepoker.com/images/cardcomparison.jpg

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Just came from a home game...yes I failed to make the money twice....sigh

Anyhow...Copags were the cards...after I busted out I began to deal....

Not a big fan of the cards...seemed VERY flimsy and slick...

Are Kems as good as they once were since being bought out by US Playing Card? I'm leaning towards Dal Negro and Modiano, but I'm gonna give the Desjgn a shot too...

The local casino uses Gemaco, I love the feel but the pips are all wearing off of the cards terribly...has anyone seen that with the Gemaco cards or are the defective seconds???

Thanks..Bossman

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

TrvChBoy,

Do you own Dal Negros? If not you need to try them.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

OK, I just bought a set of Dal Negros with the 4 index faces.

By the way, I guess I forgot to post this last night. A closer look at the Kem and Desjgn "4"s:
http://www.saltlakepoker.com/images/threevfour.jpg

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Card reiviews for most manufacturers here:
http://www.homepokertourney.com/cards_review.htm

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I just bought a set of Dal Negros with the 4 index faces.

By the way, I guess I forgot to post this last night. A closer look at the Kem and Desjgn "4"s:
http://www.saltlakepoker.com/images/threevfour.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

For 7-10, the desjgn pip layout is different, but in one case (the 9) I think may be an improvement. Very easy to see that square pattern and recognize it as a nine. But I think for 7-10 you are index glancing more often than not.


The four really is the only confusing one of the bunch, because it is a low index where it is easy to count the pips.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1...jgnpipsad9.jpg

I think a simple change to a diamond pattern would still be different from standard but more distinct from the three pip arrangement:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8...pipsaltwz1.jpg

But it's a minor problem at best.

Basically, if it bothers you, don't use these. Otherwise, the desjgn cards are worth a shot.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

Dal Negros are BY FAR the best playing card I have ever used. I have the 4 color ones. I think I would kinda prefer the regular ones.

Re: Need good plastic cards
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think a simple change to a diamond pattern would still be different from standard but more distinct from the three pip arrangement:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8...pipsaltwz1.jpg

But it's a minor problem at best.

Basically, if it bothers you, don't use these. Otherwise, the desjgn cards are worth a shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like that 4. Nice change from the same old same old and still easily distinguished from any other card.