On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

...for butchering these ladies.

No reads.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $266
SB: $199
BB: $200
Hero (UTG): $203.95

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $22</font>, Hero calls $15

Flop: ($45) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $30</font>, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($105) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($105) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $64</font>, Hero...

Blah. Any thoughts appreciated.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

Definitely 4bet pf since it's 4 handed.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

I also 4b pre but as played you did fine and call river.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Definitely 4bet pf since it's 4 handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, I didn't obv this time. I do more than I don't. So, teach me about postflop as played.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

Just call, nothing wrong except PF.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Definitely 4bet pf since it's 4 handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, I didn't obv this time. I do more than I don't. So, teach me about postflop as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

call riv like others said.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

why a river call is better than a fold?

I dont see your opponent bet here with something worst than an ace..

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

Its true theres not many hands on the river he can bet that are worse than QQ. 7,9............ but i doubt hes calling out of position pre raise with that?

I still think its a defo call here though as it is 4 handed and a raised pot i think he bluffs alot of the time on the end.

you only to be correct about 35% of the time to turn a profit and im sure he is betting the river way more than that on a pure bluff.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

Im confused why the river is such an easy call, wtf

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

fold flop; as played, fold river.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

yea i dont understand that river calling advice either.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
yea i dont understand that river calling advice either.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain probably fires the turn w/Ax

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yea i dont understand that river calling advice either.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain probably fires the turn w/Ax

[/ QUOTE ]

Strongly disagree.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

You really only beat a bluff, he's prolly got 89d or something like that, I think I'd fold most times.. I don't mind the smooth call preflop occasionally.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

fold river ...

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yea i dont understand that river calling advice either.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain probably fires the turn w/Ax

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Strongly disagree.

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Yep, Ax certainly checks the turn here in a re-raised pot as he is more afraid of having a weak kicker or be dead to a set, rather than the flush draw.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

river is NOT an easy call.
wtf? fold.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

thread;

wtf, call
wtf, call
wtf, call
wtf, call

me- wtf, fold

wtf, fold
wtf, fold
wtf, fold
wtf, fold

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

sorry didnt see ya killy... i wouldve quoted you if i did so you can look cooler [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

but really, a fold does seem pretty standard.. i mean i check Ax on the turn all the time in rr'd pots, just so i can get calls from confused TT-QQ.
and its not like hes bluffing the river often, if ever, after you call the flop

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

i fold the flop, rio is just ridic

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i fold the flop, rio is just ridic

[/ QUOTE ]


not if you plan to put no more money in

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

I just fold the flop and now I prefer a fold a on the river as well.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

played fine. river is actually vv close so I call cause I'm a station and I need to develop some reads on this guy if I'm planning on staying at this table or posting any more hands against him. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

Preflop is fine. 4bet is fine too, but saying calling is bad is wrong. River is a fold readless and its not close.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

I'm down with folding the flop. As played, the river too.

Given that you have no reads, calling the flop puts your stack at risk based on a guess. I suppose that this pans out sometimes, but you absolutely never want to get it all in unless you spike 1 of 2 outs on later streets - and you've just committed 25% of your stack, with exactly 1 PSB left. You also have zero initiative right now.

I'm curious to hear a deeper explanation of the decision-making process for those advocating a call on the flop.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious to hear a deeper explanation of the decision-making process for those advocating a call on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

call because he's cbetting this flop with 100% of his 3betting range, and many people just shut down at this point when called. then we can check it down and win with a high frequency. as part of that plan, we should fold the river, though.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

I'm in the "4bet pre usually, this is fine if you fold river" camp

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

4 bet pf.
Flop fine.
Fold river.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious to hear a deeper explanation of the decision-making process for those advocating a call on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

call because he's cbetting this flop with 100% of his 3betting range, and many people just shut down at this point when called. then we can check it down and win with a high frequency. as part of that plan, we should fold the river, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the explanation. I see what you are saying, and I'd agree if we had any reads that he plays this way. However, without more information I prefer the safe, low variance, ABC play. Could be just a style difference, though. Personally, knowing that "most players do this" isn't enough for me in this situation.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

Everything looks okay as long as you fold the river.

(Pre-flop 4-betting is fine, but I assume you called looking to get money in on non-A flops.)

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

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and its not like hes bluffing the river often, if ever, after you call the flop

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That was my thought too. My hand's pretty face up as what it is and so I can't really see him betting TT-JJ on the end, which is what he has to be doing for me to be good with any frequency.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

PF is fine IMO. I think 4-betting is fine when he has a relatively tight range that includes 88-JJ/AQ that will stack off PF, or is prone to really spewy PF plays like 5-betting A8o etc. But as his 3-bet range gets looser (and 5-bet range stays fairly constant) then you can get more creative with QQ-TT/AQ+ imo.

I would also fold river, and the rest looks fine.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

I would fold the river given his bet sizing. I think that PF is also fine.

Re: On the FBI\'s most wanted list...
 

I think calling the flop planning not to put any more money in is completely standard. If you're not calling in these spots at least some of the time, you're going to get run over in 3-bet pots.