Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Found it interesting, and while I don't agree with everything, I think its a very respectable list.....

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10383811


Note: I would copy and paste it, but I was told in the past by a mod to not copy and paste full articles so blame the mods.

Some disagreements:

-I think Dwight Howard is better than Bosh and Amare. Amare benefits greatly from Nash. Howard is simply more physical and dominant than those two...scary to think that he doesn't even really have any great moves or great touch yet.

-Am I being a complete homer in thinking that theres no way theres 19 players in the NBA better than Gilbert Arenas?

-Jermaine O Neal is way way too high imo. I simply don't think hes that good of a player. His FG% is very low for a big man and suggests that he'd be better off as a 2nd or 3rd option imo. Consider Pao Gasol who is ranked 5 spots lower. Their stats from last year:

Gasol: 20.8 points on 53.9% shooting, 9.9 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.1 blocks

O Neal: 19.4 points on 43.7% shooting, 9.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists, and 2.6 blocks

Thats not to mention that O Neal is constantly hurt.


-Deron Williams and Chris Paul seem really low to me....no way they're that far behind Nash and Kidd imo. Also, its crazy how much the rankings of Williams/Paul changed from their first year to their second.

-Loul Deng should be higher, especially since he writes in his opening paragraphs: "Players are ranked in the order of their projected impact on the coming season. Upside is taken into account, but only for the next 12 months. Whether you're a bargain or a bad contract doesn't matter." Deng is only going to get better this next year.

-Elton Brand not even in the top 50???!!!!!!

-Leandro Barbosa, Josh Smith, David Lee, are all also notable missing names.

-Call me crazy, but I think Tyrus Thomas will be on next year's list.

-I'm a Wizards fan, but no way Jamison should be that high

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

LOL STEVE NASH AT 5. 5 MORE LIKE 500. LOLZ.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Jermaine O'Neal is definitely too high.
I'd swap him straight up for For Marion or Arenas in a heartbeat.


Baron Davis is too high also. He is getting love now for the upset of the Mavs, but the reality is that he has missed an average of 35 games a year over the last 6 seasons. He just misses too much time to be considered better than someone like Billups.

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Also I think KG should be higher. I don't think hes that far from Duncan.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Damn you Assani for posting this while I'm at work late trying to finish [censored] up. Damn me and my lack of disciprine.

Also damn these lists because going across positions and just saying "best" is really hard to do.

My (homer) input, based purely on value, not "but when he's on the court and clicking" skills. Generally I think it's OK. I don't want to nitpick a ton at the top, but I have Kidd ahead of Nash, and probably of Wade and Lebron. My top 5 is probably something like Duncan, KG, Kidd, Kobe, Lebron. No real particular order. Wade's too injury prone.

I think TMac is too high. I think Pierce is a more valuable asset.

Yao's a tough call because he's hurt all the time.

'Melo is way too high. He's a turnover machine. Gilbert, Redd, Marion, Deron, Boozer, Pau, Deng, Vince, Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, Chris Paul (way too low in general, btw), Gerald Wallace (again, way too low), Billups, Kevin Martin.. I think all these guys are better than him.

Kevin Durant doesn't belong on this list, but whatever.

Al Jefferson should be a bit higher. Somewhere in the high 30s, low to mid 40s I'd guess.

I think Rip Hamilton is too high, but not by an absurd amount. Definitely not better than Ray Allen, Deron, Deng, Josh Howard, etc.

OK, that's enough for now.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

This year (and maybe next) will go a long way towards what people think of KG. I think he'll move up on most peoples lists.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

kc, you really value Kidd that much? I dunno...the 40% FG% gives me lots of concerns. Just seems like that on 1/2 the nights you just stay off him and he isn't capable of consistently hitting his outside shots....of course when he is then hes nearly unstoppable.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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-Elton Brand not even in the top 50???!!!!!!

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He says he's only concerned with their impact on the 2007-08 season. So Brand doesn't count.

I think Chris Paul is probably the one he screwed up the most. He should be in the low teens somewhere.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Assani,

meh.. maybe you're right. His rebounding and defense are such a huge edge at his position, though, so he makes up for his weak shooting. He's better at protecting the ball, as well (or at least he has been the past 3 years).

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

wow - no brand is a joke - i would probably take him over half the list. - eh read comment about 07/08 whatever.

mcgrady too high - boozer too low - he's bordering on a top 10 talent now. like am i nuts for thinking boozer should be ahead of kidd? (whether kidd is 6 or 26)

i would take maggette over a number of guys listed.

kidd too high. pierce too high.

there seems to be a lot of weird filler - like hard to figure out where shaq should really be - durant is kind of a lame pick.

mainly this list shows me that the league is a lot less deep than i thought. (maybe such a list from any year would make me think that)

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

I think he overvalues scorers. Guys like Rip Hamilton, Vince, Pierce, etc.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

kidd is overrated.

lebron should be 1 ldo.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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I think he overvalues scorers. Guys like Rip Hamilton, Vince, Pierce, etc.

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Yeah it's a homer post, but no. He's fairly efficient (due to getting to the line and a good 3 point shot) and he's a very good rebounder for his size.

Plus, I wanted an excuse to use basketball-reference's stat search stuff. I did a search for the rebound rates for forwards between 6'4" and 6'8" (6'9" had too many power forwards come up) who played >10,000 minutes total over the past 6 seasons (I wanted to weed out scrubs but not weed out guys like Lebron who've only played for 3 or 4 years) who are still active.

Check it out: link

Click the show/hide search terms to see what I entered. Feel free to tinker with it. I'm not trying to claim it's perfect, but it gives you a reasonable idea of where a guy like Pierce or T-Mac stands when it comes to rebounding.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

I agree with everyone about Boozer. He should be a top 10er probably.

Disagree with those that think Kidd is overrated. A PG who protects the ball, plays decent enough D and can snag 1.5 steals a game, and on top of that, pull down 8 fricking boards a game is very valuable.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

How is Rondo not on the list with all that defense and athletisicm?

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Rumor has it he's considering retirement after already locking up his place in the HOF and a spot on the Top 50 All Time list.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

I stopped reading after Tony Parker was ahead of Gilbert.

I do agree with Bosh and Stoudamire being ranked higher than D-Howard for the 07-08 year, he isn't nearly the polished players those those two are (obviously he is/going to be insanely good)

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Pretty insane that Yao isn't in the top ten, no?

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

If he can play 75+ games he's in the top 7 or 8 or so. He's played 57 and 48 his past two seasons.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Sheed?! ... shambles

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I rather have Manu, Kev Martin or Andre Iggy over Rip Hamilton.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Arenas, Deng, Gasol, and KG too low.

Kidd, T-Mac, and Pierce all too high.

Overall a pretty good list though.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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Overall a pretty good list though.

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Never mind he has Billups at 28 lol what a dope.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Wade seems too high given rumors about his injuries which specifically condradict the notion that he'll be 100%. Moreover Wade's style of play basically means he WILL get hurt. I'm not sure I would rank a guy who is likely only giving you 65 games at best that high.

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I rather have Manu, Kev Martin or Andre Iggy over Rip Hamilton.

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Fail.

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Seriously though, Melo is way way way too high. He's basically Dominque 2.0 (though stylistically different, he's always going to be be a big numbers-mediocre team guy)

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Seriously though, Melo is way way way too high. He's basically Dominque 2.0 (though stylistically different, he's always going to be be a big numbers-mediocre team guy)

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Why?

He won an NCAA championship and has been on Denver, what other data points do you have?

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I rather have Manu, Kev Martin or Andre Iggy over Rip Hamilton.

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Fail.

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brag. I'm in a fantasy league with this guy (even though I guess Rip puts up pretty good fantasy numbers). All 3 of those guys are better than Rip (Iggy's TOs scare me, though).

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

Dids,

He's been pretty overrated thus far in his NBA career. His main problem is he turns the ball over a lot, isn't all that good a rebounder, and he's a horrid 3 point shooter, yet still launches 2 attempts a game. If he abandoned the 3 point shot all together and crashed the offensive glass instead, it'd be a pretty big improvement. Or he could get good at 3s, but nothing points to that happening.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

kc,

I don't really disagree with that I guess, or the notion that he's ranked too high.. I'm just not sure that directly relates to what sethypooh said, unless I'm misunderstanding what he means by "mediocre team" guy. Yeah, he's a bit of a chucker and doesn't hit the boards, but he's still a solid scorer and on the right team could be a big addition.

Also, as somebody who suffered through Karl's sonics teams, I recall a somewhat insitutational disinterest with "rebounding" and "defense" and "players under 39".

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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I rather have Manu, Kev Martin or Andre Iggy over Rip Hamilton.

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Fail.

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brag. I'm in a fantasy league with this guy (even though I guess Rip puts up pretty good fantasy numbers). All 3 of those guys are better than Rip (Iggy's TOs scare me, though).

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Fantasy I take all 3 over Rip (or at least Iggy and Martin). Real basketball, Rip is a better player.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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kc,

I don't really disagree with that I guess, or the notion that he's ranked too high.. I'm just not sure that directly relates to what sethypooh said, unless I'm misunderstanding what he means by "mediocre team" guy. Yeah, he's a bit of a chucker and doesn't hit the boards, but he's still a solid scorer and on the right team could be a big addition.

Also, as somebody who suffered through Karl's sonics teams, I recall a somewhat insitutational disinterest with "rebounding" and "defense" and "players under 39".

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I'm not suggesting that Melo is a mediocre teammate, I'm suggesting that he's going to be on mediocre teams. He takes up too much cap space and too many possessions for what he gives you. That combination is fairly deadly to building a true contending team around him.

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I rather have Manu, Kev Martin or Andre Iggy over Rip Hamilton.

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Fail.

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brag. I'm in a fantasy league with this guy (even though I guess Rip puts up pretty good fantasy numbers). All 3 of those guys are better than Rip (Iggy's TOs scare me, though).

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Fantasy I take all 3 over Rip (or at least Iggy and Martin). Real basketball, Rip is a better player.

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No way. Iguodala is much more versatile, Ginobili is a little more versatile, and Martin is basically Rip with slightly better range.

-McGee

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

I stopped reading at Jason Kidd. What a joke. His first 5 players are fine, I guess, but who could get those wrong (the order is always a bit debatable, but who cares)?

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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No way. Iguodala is much more versatile, Ginobili is a little more versatile, and Martin is basically Rip with slightly better range.

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Iggy is versatile in that he does many things moderately well. Rip does a few things excellently and everything else (aside from perhaps rebounding) competently.

I mean, I guess it depends on where your team is, but a guy like Rip who scores with mad efficiency, is regarded as a pretty good defender, and, personal hobby horse of mine, doesn't need to dominate the ball to be effective (not to mention is probably one of the least fun guys in the league to guard) is a much more valuable piece on a good team then would be Iggy or K-mart. Ginobili is sufficiently different in style as to make the comparison hard (again, I think Many would be a mess on the Pistons, and while Rip would be effective with the Spurs, they would take a step back as Manu is their best/only playmaker.)

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

They're all more versatile. Iggy's the only one I'm reluctant to call a better player due to his TOs and lower shooting percentages, but he's also a much, much better defender.

Let's just compare last season, shall we?

link

What are the mains things that jump out at you? They all rebound at a better rate than him. They all get to the line at a better rate than him. They all commit less fouls while making more steals than him (hints towards being better defenders).

Yes, only Martin protects the ball noticeably better. Manu and Iggy turn it over at an alarming rate, but Rip is pretty bad, too. Not exactly a "win" for him.

Martin and G-Nobe flat out score more efficiently than Rip. They shoot just as good, but better with the 3s. They need less attempts to put up the numbers Rip does.

Aren't you a TS% guy? Guess who's the worst of 'em.. yep, Rip.

What about PER? He's even with Iggy, and a good distance from Martin and Ginobili.

WP48 your bag? Sure it's somewhat controversial, but what they heck. Rip posted a 0.070 last season, which is actually below average. Martin - .223 (very good), Iggy - .184 (pretty good), Ginobili - .311 (awesome).

There are a lot of close debates when comparing players, since there's a whole slew of factors. This one just isn't one of 'em.

Note: I actually like Rip quite a bit. He's a fine player.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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Rip who scores with mad efficiency

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I don't use too many of these Hollinger type stats because I am not yet convinced of their place in basketball, but I do think points per shot is a pretty decent measure, and -- last season, anyway -- Rip doesn't come close to the other 3:

Martin 1.52
Ginobili 1.45
Iguodala 1.40
Hamilton 1.29

-McGee

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

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I stopped reading at Jason Kidd. What a joke. His first 5 players are fine, I guess, but who could get those wrong (the order is always a bit debatable, but who cares)?

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I hate when people say that, because no one actually stops there.

I also can't figure out what everyone has against Kidd. The guy is incredible. Fine if you don't like him at 6, but it's not the most laughable thing ever. He's almost definitely top 10, and definitely definitely top 15. He just posted one of his best seasons and he'll be regarded as a top 5 PG of all time.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

To be honest, I'm not, in general, a big fan of using statistical measurements in determining a basketball player's worth. I think Hollinger's metrics are fine, so far as they go (but if you mention Dave Berri as anything other than a joke, DIAGF) it's just that INDIVIDUAL basketball stats are SO context dependent that I think it's somewhat of a folly to draw conclusions as to who's a 'better' player from a purely statistical standpoint. I mean, Iggy gets more boards in part because his big men suck, so there are more boards to go around. Admittedly, that leaves me with a fairly unscientific way of evaluating players from a non-roto perspective.

Also, please note that if Martin and Iggy duplicate their production from last season over the next 2-3, I would completely re-evaluate.

Re: Tony Mejia ranks the top 50 current NBA players
 

To some degree I agree with you. A lot of it depends on the system. For example, some of Rips #s, like his FTA/game (or 48 or whatever) are hurt because he plays on the slowest team in basketball. But the rate numbers, like Rebound Rate, take possessions into account. So those are still a bit damning. Note that Manu plays on one of the slowest teams as well, and he still tears up the glass, playing alongside Timmah, nonetheless. Philly's a pretty slow team, too.

Kevin Martin, though, played on a really fast team (4th in the league), so maybe I'll have to think about that some more. On the other hand, the power battle between Artest and Bibby probably prevented the ball from getting to Martin more than it should.

Also, regarding the "doesn't need the ball" argument. I like that argument for guys Marion and Gerald Wallace. For Rip, though he might not need the ball, he needs a bunch of screens and plays called for him. This isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, I don't think. It depends. I just want to point out it can be a little deceiving to say that.

In Rip's case, I'm a huge fan of the curl play at the elbow they call for him. I'm not a huge fan of any play where he's running through a ton of back screens to get him the ball (too many guys standing around just setting picks).