$60, really slim bubble push...?
 

2nd big stack seems decent enough to realize that with one guy so low he should be careful here. i doubt he knows the numbers at all though...

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t785
hero: t4820
SB: t3130
BB: t4765

Pre-flop: (4 players) hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises all-in

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

This is a really slim push with any hand range, why not wait for money with the 1st or 2nd biggest stack?

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

cause i have balls....hairy ones

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

This is a marginal spot. If you had 5400 chips or more, I'd like pushing better. I would probably fold this, but it depends a lot on reads and your table image. Both blinds SHOULD be very tight, but...

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

Not worth it.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

If BB is going to fold a ton as well as SB it's fine.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

Looks good.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If BB is going to fold a ton as well as SB it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is what would indicate it being a reasonable shove or not. otherwise just fold.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

Incredibly read dependent. I mean BB shouldn't call with like AK and stuff but most people still do.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

gross because people are awful and will call this with AQ+/99+

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

I haven't played sngs in a long time, but this was an any two cards push when I played.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played sngs in a long time, but this was an any two cards push when I played.

[/ QUOTE ]

It still is.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played sngs in a long time, but this was an any two cards push when I played.

[/ QUOTE ]

It still is.

[/ QUOTE ]

zomg. Tigerite...good to see you back around.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incredibly read dependent. I mean BB shouldn't call with like AK and stuff but most people still do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is absolutely right, great shove against some people godawful against others.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

In perfect world it would be a +ev push, in real its -ev

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

I would have thought this is a standard ATC spot. It's like +0.6%EV when the blinds call "correctly" on 99+ compared to -0.2%EV if they both call AQ+/77+.

Not to mention how ICM undervalues your equity when you lose vs BB and have 55 chips left since the blind hits UTG next hand.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In perfect world it would be a +ev push, in real its -ev

[/ QUOTE ]

True, you cannot own donks.

I think as the buyin increases, the EV of this push increases, the same goes for the 'regularity' or 'solidarity' of the blinds

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incredibly read dependent. I mean BB shouldn't call with like AK and stuff but most people still do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

seems alright, the third big stack calling wouldnt be that big of a desestar here.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In perfect world it would be a +ev push, in real its -ev

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you were given better reads than me? Or you were at the table? Can you please explain why this is definitely a -EV push?

If the blinds are both competent, then it seems like a standard push to me, let alone -EV.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

i fold here. people call too loose, even with a shorty.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Incredibly read dependent. I mean BB shouldn't call with like AK and stuff but most people still do.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

to darin, pudge and everyone else who quoted this:

i understand its read dependent. against any solid player, its an instant push and against any definite donk its an easy fold. HOWEVER, this guy is somewhere in the middle as i noted in OP.

what would you guys do when you havent played with someone enough to have a solid 'read'? does that make it a fold?

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

here is your breakeven call range:

sb 88 ATs AJo
bb 88 AQo AJs

fwiw - if these guys know you are pushing 75%ish, then they should call with TT+.

the real nice part about pushing is if you steal the blinds here and shorty is able to double up on the next hand, then you are in a great position to pwn.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played sngs in a long time, but this was an any two cards push when I played.

[/ QUOTE ]

It still is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree in almost every case.

Ryan

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In perfect world it would be a +ev push, in real its -ev

[/ QUOTE ]

QF Absolute T

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

Brain,
It's dependent on a lot of gameflow things. He is on the tighter side of solid, have I been shoving alot etc. Lets say I just remember one hand where he called MP pfr with AJo that is probably enough to fold here. Some guys basically have the same reshoving range as calling range so I might make it 1k etc.

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Brain,
It's dependent on a lot of gameflow things. He is on the tighter side of solid, have I been shoving alot etc. Lets say I just remember one hand where he called MP pfr with AJo that is probably enough to fold here. Some guys basically have the same reshoving range as calling range so I might make it 1k etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a lot of people this is definitely a much better idea.

Ryan

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Brain,
It's dependent on a lot of gameflow things. He is on the tighter side of solid, have I been shoving alot etc. Lets say I just remember one hand where he called MP pfr with AJo that is probably enough to fold here. Some guys basically have the same reshoving range as calling range so I might make it 1k etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

k, thx pudge. and while im normally very much in tune with the subtle factors of 'gameflow', i dont really remember that much now obviously...

good points though

Re: $60, really slim bubble push...?
 

My only read is based on fact, that i play better icm poker then my opponents which means they are very capable of making stupid calls in situations like this, and if they werent and were playing perfect icm poker instead i wouldn't be making any money.