Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent When You're New to Heads-up No-limit Hold 'em by Frederic Bush


To give our author feedback and to encourage discussion, I'm creating this thread to discuss the article linked above.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

I for one loved this article for it was plainly stating a lot of great concpets.
one big concept was on the big blind I didnt know that it was a great strategy to fold a great deal of hands on the preflop in the big blind. I was under the impression that you would want to see a lot of flops as the old adage "the flop missed you but it also missed your opponet as well".

wouldn't one get blinded down if they are folding prefop in the big blind, and then get raised when on the button when we raised?.
in relation to a head up battle at the final table or a sit and go?.
how do we combat this big raiser who is taking momentum, our chips , and demoralzing us.
pick a hand and move in, therefore putting him to the test or do you have a strategy you are going to reveal in november issue?

this wasnt' in your article but i was also wondering about the phil techique of moving in every hand ? . how do you combat this especially if you are card dead ?.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

Masterholmes:

Not to speak for the author at all, but I believe that you have hit upon a few of the differences between cash game and tournament HU. The author specifically states:

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The presence of an ante in tournament poker, and the smaller relative stacks, make heads-up tourney advice of limited applicability to no-limit cash games

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Getting "blinded down" is not a real consideration in cash games, since you can reload whenever you choose. If you both have full effective stacks of 100BB plus, there is little need to base your strategy around defending your blinds.

In a tournament, of course, if you consistently fold your big blind you give up valuable chips, and the only way to "reload" your stack is to win them back. And with every chip you lose the "power" of your stack decreases, and the power of your opponent's stack increases, making your job harder.

Picking a hand and moving in is not a good strategy in deep stack HU cash games either - you risk a lot of chips for little gain. A 3-bet will often have a comparable fold equity to a push, and has much less risk if you happen to have picked the moment when your opponent has a premium hand.

HU at the end of an MTT or SNG is a different kettle of fish entirely - I think the STT forum has a lot of wisdom on that, based on ICM calculations.

As someone who plays a lot of HU SNGs, I can only reinforce my agreement with the author that the two are almost incomparable at times.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

Oh, and a question of my own:

You talk about 3-betting as the main defence to the player who (correctly) raises a large percentage of his button hands. Do you see this as preferable to calling and leading out on the flop (ie effectively floating before the flop)? Or do you feel that both have a place?

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and a question of my own:

You talk about 3-betting as the main defence to the player who (correctly) raises a large percentage of his button hands. Do you see this as preferable to calling and leading out on the flop (ie effectively floating before the flop)? Or do you feel that both have a place?

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Thanks for the question, Penguin.

As you can see if you read further down in the article, I believe a strategy of check/raising the flop to be a superior play, because it is more likely to give your opponent conniptions and it puts you back in control of the hand. (Check-calling flops has its place as well, particularly vs. aggressive foes.)

Donk-betting the flop leaves your opponent in control of the pot size and the situation. Also, it's hard to both donk-bet your good hands and have hands left over that are worth calling if you check and he continuation bets; so either your donk-bet range is going to be quite weak, or your checking range will be quite weak, and in either case you're giving your opponent useful info about the strength of your hand while having no info on his, which is IMO a poor situation.

--Fred

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
I for one loved this article for it was plainly stating a lot of great concpets.
one big concept was on the big blind I didnt know that it was a great strategy to fold a great deal of hands on the preflop in the big blind. I was under the impression that you would want to see a lot of flops as the old adage "the flop missed you but it also missed your opponet as well".

wouldn't one get blinded down if they are folding prefop in the big blind, and then get raised when on the button when we raised?.
in relation to a head up battle at the final table or a sit and go?.
how do we combat this big raiser who is taking momentum, our chips , and demoralzing us.
pick a hand and move in, therefore putting him to the test or do you have a strategy you are going to reveal in november issue?

this wasnt' in your article but i was also wondering about the phil techique of moving in every hand ? . how do you combat this especially if you are card dead ?.

[/ QUOTE ]

Masterholmes:

To learn more about handling preflop all-ins, I recommend you look at optimal headsup push/fold tables. These analyze which hands it is profitable to go all-in with preflop, and which hands it is profitable to call an all-in player with, given a certain number of big blinds behind.

The Sklansky-Chubukov tables, which can be found in 2+2's No-Limit Hold'em Theory and Practice, and are also online here, are one approach.

Another approach is taken by the authors of the Mathematics of Poker and the Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide (Tournament Edition), resulting in a different set of hands in their table.

In no-limit cash games, you are usually playing with a large effective stack, so you don't see all-in preflop moves by untilted players very often.

--Fred

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
Donk-betting the flop leaves your opponent in control of the pot size and the situation. Also, it's hard to both donk-bet your good hands and have hands left over that are worth calling if you check and he continuation bets; so either your donk-bet range is going to be quite weak, or your checking range will be quite weak, and in either case you're giving your opponent useful info about the strength of your hand while having no info on his, which is IMO a poor situation.

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I hadn't thought of it like that - thanks.

Also, do you advocate a standard raise from the button, or do you vary the size of your raise? If the latter, do you do so based on any factors, or is it just random?

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

I liked your article.

My one bone of contention or point of clarification.

I certainly have a lot more tourney than cash game experience, but am a winning player. What is wrong with min raising preflop from the small blind? This is about the only time I min raise, btw.

I like the argument that the entire contest is based on the battle of the blinds. I like to risk the minimum to win the maximum. I also find that you get a lot more action with premium hands.

If you are against this strategy my question would be do you vary the amounts of your preflop raises.

Great article and this is the only part I disagreed with, doesn't mean I'm right.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

Great article. So how would you go about playing a middle strength hand, out of position, against an opponent who rarely folds his BB?

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

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Great article. So how would you go about playing a middle strength hand, out of position, against an opponent who rarely folds his BB?

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No quick answer for that one.

PM me for coaching info :-)

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
I liked your article.

My one bone of contention or point of clarification.

I certainly have a lot more tourney than cash game experience, but am a winning player. What is wrong with min raising preflop from the small blind? This is about the only time I min raise, btw.

I like the argument that the entire contest is based on the battle of the blinds. I like to risk the minimum to win the maximum. I also find that you get a lot more action with premium hands.

If you are against this strategy my question would be do you vary the amounts of your preflop raises.

Great article and this is the only part I disagreed with, doesn't mean I'm right.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your opponent is folding a lot preflop, then minraising has some theoretical sexiness. However, most opponents make the opposite mistake and call too much in the big blind, and minraising makes that less of a mistake.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

Great article. A couple of questions, though:

1) Are you arguing for raising 100% from the button, never to limp, or never to fold? I agree that raising wide from the button is definitely your best strategy, just not sure the exact limp/fold/raise pre-flop strategy you're suggesting.

2) I think making a min-raise (or slightly above, e.g., raising to $4.5 in a $1-$2 game) is defensible from the button, as comic2b mentions earlier. You're doing this to build a slightly larger pot with position, even though your chances of winning the blinds outright are small. Also, when the pot is unraised going into the flop, I think sometimes making a min-bet (or close to it) is a defensible play when your opponent is passive or has shown weakness.

All in all, a very good article.

-- Collin

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great article. A couple of questions, though:

1) Are you arguing for raising 100% from the button, never to limp, or never to fold? I agree that raising wide from the button is definitely your best strategy, just not sure the exact limp/fold/raise pre-flop strategy you're suggesting.

2) I think making a min-raise (or slightly above, e.g., raising to $4.5 in a $1-$2 game) is defensible from the button, as comic2b mentions earlier. You're doing this to build a slightly larger pot with position, even though your chances of winning the blinds outright are small. Also, when the pot is unraised going into the flop, I think sometimes making a min-bet (or close to it) is a defensible play when your opponent is passive or has shown weakness.

All in all, a very good article.

-- Collin

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1) I'm saying that limping in is usually a sign of a weak opponent.

It's slightly beyond the scope of the article, but the general preflop strategy I advocate is raise/fold, no limping.

2) No argument from me that building a pot in position is a worthy goal. However, why minraise when they'll call a pot raise?

As for postflop minbetting -- frequent minbetting is a mistake. However, there are situations where a minbet is reasonable, like the unraised pot you mention. (In fact I say in the article that an opponent who minbets into a pot after limping in is making a decent postflop play, but he's losing equity overall because he let you see a flop.)

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

I'm just starting to play hu games, starting off at 400NL where as my usual game is 1k/2k 6 max. Recently I watched CTS' new video on cardrunners and he advocates limping sometimes with really weak hands against people who 3 bet alot from the BB.

What do you think of this strategy? The games I've played so far have included some super aggro player who are 3betting every 2nd raise I make from the SB, thus negating my positional advantage. Obviously I've adjusted with some light 4 betting and cold calling and floating, but I still think there may be some value in limping some garbage hands occasionally. Thoughts?

Good article btw.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just starting to play hu games, starting off at 400NL where as my usual game is 1k/2k 6 max. Recently I watched CTS' new video on cardrunners and he advocates limping sometimes with really weak hands against people who 3 bet alot from the BB.

What do you think of this strategy? The games I've played so far have included some super aggro player who are 3betting every 2nd raise I make from the SB, thus negating my positional advantage. Obviously I've adjusted with some light 4 betting and cold calling and floating, but I still think there may be some value in limping some garbage hands occasionally. Thoughts?

Good article btw.

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It takes a deft touch to make money by limping in with crap hands. You make a lot of weak hands postflop and you need to have good reads on your opponent to extract the maximum when your 3rd pair is good and get away with minimal losses when you're beat.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't recommend this play to someone who's just starting out in HU, but if you can beat 1k/2k then I'm not going to say it's necessarily a mistake.

However, you might get a better hourly rate, especially at lower limits, by just throwing away junk and moving on to the next hand. By limping in, you ensure that you will get raked on the hand (or lose entirely if the other guy raises you out), and a potential small edge may not be worth pushing.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

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Donk-betting the flop leaves your opponent in control of the pot size and the situation. Also, it's hard to both donk-bet your good hands and have hands left over that are worth calling if you check and he continuation bets; so either your donk-bet range is going to be quite weak, or your checking range will be quite weak, and in either case you're giving your opponent useful info about the strength of your hand while having no info on his, which is IMO a poor situation.


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What do you think of donk-betting with a small random sample of your checking range which has the same strength and distribution as your checking range just to see how your opponent reacts to a donk-bet?

FWIW, I rarely play heads-up NLHE, but when I do, I start out committing some of the errors that you list and trying to play a lot of small pots in an effort to get a read on my opponent and figure out how best to stack him.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]

What do you think of this strategy? The games I've played so far have included some super aggro player who are 3betting every 2nd raise I make from the SB, thus negating my positional advantage. Obviously I've adjusted with some light 4 betting and cold calling and floating, but I still think there may be some value in limping some garbage hands occasionally. Thoughts?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would think that against a super aggro player who sees just about every flop, you'd start limping in with hands that have value rather than garbage hands. A hand like 87s might be more profitable if you limp and call a raise preflop instead of having to play it for a raise and reraise. You maintain the implied odds power of the hand by keeping the preflop pot smaller relative to stack sizes and you give yourself more room for plays like a check-raise with money still left in your stack for the threat of a future bet.

You might also want to limp-reraise this player, although I'm not sure what hands are best for that strategy.

The problem with playing HU NLH cash games
 

Joe and Tom both sit down at a heads up NLH cash game table with their last $100. Three hours later Joe is a head of Tom. Joe has $66 and Tom has $9. Tom goes on a winning streak and three hours later he has the lead, now Tom has $26 and Joe has $22. They decide to keep playing and three hours later Tom goes all in for $16 and Joe calls with his $11, Tom wins and walks with $27, Joe has nothing.. GG boys..

-Erik

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Donk-betting the flop leaves your opponent in control of the pot size and the situation. Also, it's hard to both donk-bet your good hands and have hands left over that are worth calling if you check and he continuation bets; so either your donk-bet range is going to be quite weak, or your checking range will be quite weak, and in either case you're giving your opponent useful info about the strength of your hand while having no info on his, which is IMO a poor situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think of donk-betting with a small random sample of your checking range which has the same strength and distribution as your checking range just to see how your opponent reacts to a donk-bet?

FWIW, I rarely play heads-up NLHE, but when I do, I start out committing some of the errors that you list and trying to play a lot of small pots in an effort to get a read on my opponent and figure out how best to stack him.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey, thanks for the reply, by 1k/2k I meant 5/10 and 10/20 btw. still a long way from nosebleeds. I've read your article a few times and I think it's really well done.

Hopefully, we'll see some more in the future.

Bets of luck.

Re: Discuss: Five Basic Mistakes to Look For In an Opponent
 

Err, I'm not the author of the article.

Re: The problem with playing HU NLH cash games
 

[ QUOTE ]
Joe and Tom both sit down at a heads up NLH cash game table with their last $100. Three hours later Joe is a head of Tom. Joe has $66 and Tom has $9. Tom goes on a winning streak and three hours later he has the lead, now Tom has $26 and Joe has $22. They decide to keep playing and three hours later Tom goes all in for $16 and Joe calls with his $11, Tom wins and walks with $27, Joe has nothing.. GG boys..

-Erik

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Very easy to see in a match when your opponent has $120 and you have less than $80.

Re: The problem with playing HU NLH cash games
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Joe and Tom both sit down at a heads up NLH cash game table with their last $100. Three hours later Joe is a head of Tom. Joe has $66 and Tom has $9. Tom goes on a winning streak and three hours later he has the lead, now Tom has $26 and Joe has $22. They decide to keep playing and three hours later Tom goes all in for $16 and Joe calls with his $11, Tom wins and walks with $27, Joe has nothing.. GG boys..

-Erik

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Very easy to see in a match when your opponent has $120 and you have less than $80.

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All sites that I am aware of cap the rake at a very low amount for headsup matches, so unless you're getting into a lot of limped pots, it shouldn't be a serious problem.

Also, if your opponent has $120 and you have $80, you should immediately rebuy if you think you have an edge, and if you don't think you have an edge, you should just leave.