Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

Sorry if this is standard, but i wasn't sure what the best line is here. Villain is a standard TAG, 19/17, this is the first (or second possibly) that i've 3-bet him pf. What is standard here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero ($1166.20)
SB ($724.01)
BB ($433.20)
UTG ($573.70)
MP ($119.15)
CO ($403.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $14</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $52</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $38.

Flop: ($110) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

bet, u still dont want to show down 6 high

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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bet, u still dont want to show down 6 high

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how much? and someone do the maths for me, can i call a shove?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

70 and fold to a push.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

sucks that one of those cards isn't a club
if you bet and he shoves, you'll be getting right at 2:1 on your money. i would think the size of your 3bet is enough to get 33 and 44 to fold, so i think a reasonable push range for him would be 99+ in which case you've got right at 33% equity which is just enough to call.

to avoid it being more of a pain than it should be, pot it so you'll be getting over 2:1

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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sucks that one of those cards isn't a club
if you bet and he shoves, you'll be getting right at 2:1 on your money. i would think the size of your 3bet is enough to get 33 and 44 to fold, so i think a reasonable push range for him would be 99+ in which case you've got right at 33% equity which is just enough to call.

to avoid it being more of a pain than it should be, pot it so you'll be getting over 2:1

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villain is pretty solid/nitty so he almost never has 33/44, the only type of hand i may have fe against imo is AQ etc

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

Woops, thought you were 160BB deep for some reason.

Yeah if you bet $100 you should be able to call a push, also considering your pair outs might be good if he's a stupid bluffer.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

I dont mind a flop check, bet turn if checked to again (this is also a good board to check back AA once in a while too fwiw)

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

the difference between a bet of 80 and a bet of 110 on the flop is likely also the difference between convincing 77, 88 and maybe even TT that their hand isn't any good.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

Umm i'm still not sure about this hand, obv if i bet $100 i'm priced in to calling a shove, but that's pretty bad for metagame since i'd almost never do that with any other hand.

My line was - check behind, flat call his bet on a 6h turn, and fold to a shove on a K river - how was it?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

such a standard bet.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

What are you doing 3betting this hand if you don't even know what to do on the simplest flop?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What are you doing 3betting this hand if you don't even know what to do on the simplest flop?

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Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What are you doing 3betting this hand if you don't even know what to do on the simplest flop?

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tell me how is it the simplest flop? I don't want to just hear 'bet', i want to hear how you react to a shove which is pretty likely given his tight range

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

Bet $75 call when he shoves.

Think you have odds.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

There is like no way that if we bet and he jams that he has no pair. I'd likely bet $75 and fold to a push. Our 6 and 5 are only good if it comes 55/66 or 5 6.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

bet

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

350-75=275

275/800= 0.34 = bet/call

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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bet

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get out of my thread

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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350-75=275

275/800= 0.34 = bet/call

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Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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350-75=275

275/800= 0.34 = bet/call

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thanks, so this is def +EV, but if he is calling or shoving with90% of his range (he's certainly not calling a 3-bet oop with suited connectors or low pp's) could checking be more +EV?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

With that read of yours just fold preflop? As for the question above, do some math.. but since everyone seem to bet this flop I wouldn't even think about any other alternative.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

If you think his range is as tight as you say it is, then this is a super easy check behind.

However if you figure his range is wide enough that you have some fold equity on this board then bet like 80% pot and call a shove.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

Bet whatever amount you'd bet with a big pair here and snapcall a shove.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

If he is that tight preflop, WHY THE HELL are you 3-betting him? You should never 3-bet this hand if you are not able to play it aggressively postflop, even unimproved (this flop is great for your hand though).

As for the metagame of checking behind here, since this is early in your session and you don't have any history, I would rather do the check back with AA the first time this situation occurs. He is most likely to assume you are scared taking this line, and you won't be able to call a big turnbet profitably.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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If he is that tight preflop, WHY THE HELL are you 3-betting him?

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there's a difference between opening tight and calling a 3bet OOP tight...

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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If he is that tight preflop, WHY THE HELL are you 3-betting him? You should never 3-bet this hand if you are not able to play it aggressively postflop, even unimproved (this flop is great for your hand though).

As for the metagame of checking behind here, since this is early in your session and you don't have any history, I would rather do the check back with AA the first time this situation occurs. He is most likely to assume you are scared taking this line, and you won't be able to call a big turnbet profitably.

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Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What are you doing 3betting this hand if you don't even know what to do on the simplest flop?

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tell me how is it the simplest flop? I don't want to just hear 'bet', i want to hear how you react to a shove which is pretty likely given his tight range

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you dont know what to do because you flopped a decent draw against a tight player in a RR'd pot. Did you only 3bet hoping to take it down preflop? Why did you 3bet a nit with 56s? I really would like to hear your answer. I dont mean this to be retorical, actually want to hear your reasoning.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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If he is that tight preflop, WHY THE HELL are you 3-betting him? You should never 3-bet this hand if you are not able to play it aggressively postflop, even unimproved (this flop is great for your hand though).

As for the metagame of checking behind here, since this is early in your session and you don't have any history, I would rather do the check back with AA the first time this situation occurs. He is most likely to assume you are scared taking this line, and you won't be able to call a big turnbet profitably.

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ehm hes 19/17, hes opening quite a few hands from CO, 3betting here is fine. Its also good for shania.

People saying this is a bet/call are prob correct but its close because he probably has a big pair here quite often esp since its one of the first 3bets in the session.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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If he is that tight preflop, WHY THE HELL are you 3-betting him? You should never 3-bet this hand if you are not able to play it aggressively postflop, even unimproved (this flop is great for your hand though).

As for the metagame of checking behind here, since this is early in your session and you don't have any history, I would rather do the check back with AA the first time this situation occurs. He is most likely to assume you are scared taking this line, and you won't be able to call a big turnbet profitably.

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ehm hes 19/17, hes opening quite a few hands from CO, 3betting here is fine. Its also good for shania.

People saying this is a bet/call are prob correct but its close because he probably has a big pair here quite often esp since its one of the first 3bets in the session.

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We are talking about like 1-2% so it's close [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But then we get a nice bluffy image so easy bet/call

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

So when 3betting a villain who has a tight 3bet calling OOP range, is it best to give up on the flop if we miss flop? Seems -EV to make this move just to take it down pre and give up on a missed flop which is most flops.

this pot is more difficult to play because we actaully got a nice flop and dont want to be pushed off.

What is the consenus if the flop was 2 4 8 r,? Is making a bet on that flop best becasue our only hope is FE and if villain shoves we have an easy fold? Or do we just c/f?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What is the consenus if the flop was 2 4 8 r

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how would that flop be any different?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What is the consenus if the flop was 2 4 8 r

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how would that flop be any different?

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HAHAHA! QFT. Maybe an OESD is better than a double gutshot?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What is the consenus if the flop was 2 4 8 r

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how would that flop be any different?

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HAHAHA! QFT. Maybe an OESD is better than a double gutshot?

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lol, those dbl gutter are hard to see, even when I was trying to make a gutshot draw. Lets say,
Flop 249r

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

I actually like a check behind since I would hate to get crai here and that happens fairly often.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

checkkkkkkkkkkk

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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So when 3betting a villain who has a tight 3bet calling OOP range, is it best to give up on the flop if we miss flop? Seems -EV to make this move just to take it down pre and give up on a missed flop which is most flops.


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It depends on how tight he is with calling 3bets PF. You can calculate how often he has to fold to make 3betting profitable by itself (even if you openfolded postflop all the time) and it's not THAT often. And that's ignoring the times that you flop twopair, trips, strong draws, straights, flushes, etc.

And if he calls pre with AK and AQ you have decent FE, because there are a lot of combinations of that compared to pairs (16 vs 6).

Question: if you have no history with villain, is it irrelevant what other hands you check or bet this flop with, when deciding what line to take?

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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What is the consenus if the flop was 2 4 8 r

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how would that flop be any different?

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HAHAHA! QFT. Maybe an OESD is better than a double gutshot?

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lol, those dbl gutter are hard to see, even when I was trying to make a gutshot draw. Lets say,
Flop 249r

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Lol yeah because when Fionn makes his straight on the turn I'm sure villain is going to be crappying his pants with AA!

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

If you know his calling range is tight and that he will checkraise lots of flops in this spot than why the hell would you want to bet this flop? Check behind and hope to catch your 8-outer.

Re: Slightly lost with oesd in 3-bet pot
 

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If you know his calling range is tight and that he will checkraise lots of flops in this spot than why the hell would you want to bet this flop? Check behind and hope to catch your 8-outer.

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..is what i did.