The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

...and of its allies and spiritual predecessors.

This is why I don't think Iran can be allowed to get The Bomb. Not that Iran would be likely to use it directly, but because it's goal is quite literally the extermination of the Jewish race: the same goal as the head of Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah and ally of Iran; the same goal as the earlier Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini; the same goal as Sayid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani want genocide, plain and simple. That doesn't mean they will actually DO it but this is what these guys have STATED and what they BELIEVE (edit: Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad have stated it a bit more obliquely or less explicitly than some of the others but it is still pretty clear what they are saying).

I'm aware that the USA has greatly erred in Iraq and that Iran may legitimately feel threatened. Iran's regime's political goals and spiritual goals ARE opposed to nearly every Western ideal of freedom and human and civil rights. Iran wants to export and expand its "Islamic Revolution", and the USA is of course opposed to that. Iran is sandwiched militarily at the moment from all sides. So Iran is quite understandably feeling threatened.

All that is small, IMO, compared to the following. It is absolutely terrifying what these guys think.

I've posted many statements by Ahmadinejad before. The following video gives recent and historical quotes of others as well, and insight into the much larger picture: the picture of genocidal plans, genocidal desires and genocidal ideology.

The aims of today's Iranian regime, their allies, and jihadists worldwide include the extermination of the Jews. The historical connection to carrying on Hitler's work is outlined too, from Grand Mufti al-Husseini's plans to build a Middle Eastern Auschwitz, to Egypt's second-largest newspaper's praise of Hitler's vengeance against the Jews (the only regret is that Hitler didn't go far enough), to modern quotes of various Middle Eastern religious leaders, and more.


Video: THE ISLAMIC MEIN KAMPF


Thanks for reading.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

That video's utter garbage. Besides the fact that it looks worse than PowerPoints I made in high school, the only analysis it presents is in the form of unconnected quotes and vague insinuations. How are Hitler, Nasrallah, and Ahmadinajad connected? Hard to say, because the video never breaks it down. Apparently they've all said awful, anti-Semitic things. Is that enough to postulate that they're all part of the same Nazi-Islamic conspiracy to exterminate the Jews? (Hint: no).

I'm not a fan of the Iranian regime, but this type of shallow [censored] is much more typical of people who spread ignorance, racism, and anti-Semitism than of those who fight it.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
That video's utter garbage. Besides the fact that it looks worse than PowerPoints I made in high school, the only analysis it presents is in the form of unconnected quotes and vague insinuations. How are Hitler, Nasrallah, and Ahmadinajad connected? Hard to say, because the video never breaks it down. Apparently they've all said awful, anti-Semitic things. Is that enough to postulate that they're all part of the same Nazi-Islamic conspiracy to exterminate the Jews? (Hint: no).

I'm not a fan of the Iranian regime, but this type of shallow [censored] is much more typical of people who spread ignorance, racism, and anti-Semitism than of those who fight it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say they were all part of the original Nazi conspiracy: I said the Iranian regime's ideology includes a Hitler-like basis. They would love to see the Jews exterminated. So too would Hamas. So too would Hezbollah. So too would bin-Laden. So too would Zawahiri. So too with Sayyid Qutb, al-Bannar, and many other religious or political figures past and present in the Middle East and in Islam.

edit: While there is some historical connection between Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, I'm not trying to say that all anti-Semitism in the Arab or Muslim world springs directly from that ideological lineage. Rather, Hitler dreamt of genocide against the Jews and so too do the Islamic leaders quoted. It's a common theme in the Arab and Muslim world: just as Hitler ascribed the ills of the world to the Jews and thought genocide would solve the problem, so too do the quoted in the video and above.

Based on their thinking, I don't believe they can be allowed to acquire The Bomb. That plus the fact that they are deeply opposed to our interests, and to what we view as human or civil rights. end edit


Ahmadinejad quotes I've posted before; please particularly note the last one:

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

Rafsanjani quote:

""If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran."

Ayatollah Khomeini: "Israel has to be wiped off the map."

Is it not highly significant that Iran's leaders - and all jihadists I can think of - have expressed genocidal thoughts and hatreds against the Jews? To my mind, that's Hitler-like. The theme is not uncommon at all.

Nasrallah and Hezbollah are more or less proxies/allies of Iran. Did you read the statements of Nasrallah? What do you think about that?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
...and of its allies and spiritual predecessors.

This is why I don't think Iran can be allowed to get The Bomb. Not that Iran would be likely to use it directly, but because it's goal is quite literally the extermination of the Jewish race: the same goal as the head of Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah and ally of Iran; the same goal as the earlier Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini; the same goal as Sayid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani want genocide, plain and simple. That doesn't mean they will actually DO it but this is what these guys have STATED and what they BELIEVE (edit: Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad have stated it a bit more obliquely or less explicitly than some of the others but it is still pretty clear what they are saying).

I'm aware that the USA has greatly erred in Iraq and that Iran may legitimately feel threatened. Iran's regime's political goals and spiritual goals ARE opposed to nearly every Western ideal of freedom and human and civil rights. Iran wants to export and expand its "Islamic Revolution", and the USA is of course opposed to that. Iran is sandwiched militarily at the moment from all sides. So Iran is quite understandably feeling threatened.

All that is small, IMO, compared to the following. It is absolutely terrifying what these guys think.

I've posted many statements by Ahmadinejad before. The following video gives recent and historical quotes of others as well, and insight into the much larger picture: the picture of genocidal plans, genocidal desires and genocidal ideology.

The aims of today's Iranian regime, their allies, and jihadists worldwide include the extermination of the Jews. The historical connection to carrying on Hitler's work is outlined too, from Grand Mufti al-Husseini's plans to build a Middle Eastern Auschwitz, to Egypt's second-largest newspaper's praise of Hitler's vengeance against the Jews (the only regret is that Hitler didn't go far enough), to modern quotes of various Middle Eastern religious leaders, and more.


Video: THE ISLAMIC MEIN KAMPF


Thanks for reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much do you get paid to spread this propaganda? Serious question.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...and of its allies and spiritual predecessors.

This is why I don't think Iran can be allowed to get The Bomb. Not that Iran would be likely to use it directly, but because it's goal is quite literally the extermination of the Jewish race: the same goal as the head of Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah and ally of Iran; the same goal as the earlier Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini; the same goal as Sayid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani want genocide, plain and simple. That doesn't mean they will actually DO it but this is what these guys have STATED and what they BELIEVE (edit: Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad have stated it a bit more obliquely or less explicitly than some of the others but it is still pretty clear what they are saying).

I'm aware that the USA has greatly erred in Iraq and that Iran may legitimately feel threatened. Iran's regime's political goals and spiritual goals ARE opposed to nearly every Western ideal of freedom and human and civil rights. Iran wants to export and expand its "Islamic Revolution", and the USA is of course opposed to that. Iran is sandwiched militarily at the moment from all sides. So Iran is quite understandably feeling threatened.

All that is small, IMO, compared to the following. It is absolutely terrifying what these guys think.

I've posted many statements by Ahmadinejad before. The following video gives recent and historical quotes of others as well, and insight into the much larger picture: the picture of genocidal plans, genocidal desires and genocidal ideology.

The aims of today's Iranian regime, their allies, and jihadists worldwide include the extermination of the Jews. The historical connection to carrying on Hitler's work is outlined too, from Grand Mufti al-Husseini's plans to build a Middle Eastern Auschwitz, to Egypt's second-largest newspaper's praise of Hitler's vengeance against the Jews (the only regret is that Hitler didn't go far enough), to modern quotes of various Middle Eastern religious leaders, and more.


Video: THE ISLAMIC MEIN KAMPF


Thanks for reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much do you get paid to spread this propaganda? Serious question.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's rather amazing to me that anyone can read the quotes of Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani, Khomeini, Nasrallah, al-Bannar, Sayyid Qutb, and many others: ALL of which believe the Jews are responsible for the ills of the world and want to have an Israel-free, Jew-free world, and then you think I am spreading propaganda.

Read the quotes, and please, get your head out of the ether.

This is regrettably one of the few times I've felt like being rude on this forum, but people are repeatedly espousing GENOCIDE, yet you (and Bobman) think cataloguing and presenting that is propaganda. Was it the music that threw you guys off, perhaps? Read the quotes and tell us you don't think they're in favor of genocide. Or turn down your audio and don't even listen; just read. These guys want genocide. Therefore they can't have The Bomb, even though they probably wouldn't use it (at least not directly).

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

Does anyone know why Adminejad believes that Israel must be destroyed...and soon?

I haven't seen the reason mentioned yet in this thread.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

From wikipedia:

On October 26, 2005 Ahmadinejad gave a speech at a conference in Tehran entitled "World Without Zionism". According to widely published translations, he agreed with a statement he attributed to Ayatollah Khomeini that the "occupying regime" had to be removed, and referred to it as a "disgraceful stain [on] the Islamic world" that must be "wiped off the map." [11]

Ahmadinejad's comments were condemned by major Western governments, the European Union, Russia, the United Nations Security Council and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan.[115] Egyptian, Turkish and Palestinian leaders also expressed displeasure over Ahmadinejad's remark.[116] Canada's then Prime Minister Paul Martin said, “this threat to Israel's existence, this call for genocide coupled with Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions is a matter that the world cannot ignore.”[117]

The translation of his statement has been disputed. Iran's foreign minister stated that Ahmadinejad had been "misunderstood": "He is talking about the regime. We do not recognise legally this regime."[118] Some experts state that the phrase in question is more accurately translated as "eliminated" or "wiped off" or "wiped away" from "the page of time" or "the pages of history", rather than "wiped off the map".[119] Reviewing the controversy over the translation, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner observed that "all official translations" of the comments, including the foreign ministry and president's office, "refer to wiping Israel away".[120]

Ahmadinejad has compared Israel's actions in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict to Adolf Hitler's actions during World War II saying that "Just like Hitler, the Zionist regime is just looking for a pretext for launching military attacks" and "is now acting just like him."[121]

On August 8, 2006, he gave a television interview to Mike Wallace, a correspondent for 60 Minutes, in which he questioned American support of Israel's "murderous regime" and the moral grounds for Israel's invasion of Lebanon.[12]

On December 2, 2006, Ahmadinejad met with Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyah in Doha, Qatar. At that meeting, he said that Israel "was created to establish dominion of arrogant states over the region and to enable the enemy to penetrate the heart Muslim land." He called Israel a "threat" and said it was created to create tensions in and impose US and UK policies upon the region.[122]

On December 12, 2006, Ahmadinejad addressed the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, and made comments about the future of Israel. He said, "Israel is about to crash. This is God's promise and the wish of all the world's nations." He continued, "Everyone must know that just as the U.S.S.R. disappeared, this will also be the fate of the Zionist regime, and humanity will be free."[123]

According to Gawdat Bahgat, Director of Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Indiana University of Pennsylvania, "the fiery calls to destroy Israel are meant to mobilize domestic and regional constituencies" and that "Rhetoric aside, most analysts agree that the Islamic Republic and the Jewish state are not likely to engage in a military confrontation against each other."[124]

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

1) Ahmadinejad didn't say "Israel must be wiped off the map", but something similar to "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time"

2) The reason why is that "all native Palestinians, whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews, should be allowed to take part in a general referendum before the eyes of the world and decide on a Palestinian government. Any government that is the result of this referendum will be a legitimate government." (Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei)


3) I don't see how wanting the current regime of Israel to disappear is synonymous with exterminating Jews. Wanting the fall of USSR or of the apartheid regime in South Africa doesn't mean we want to kill all Russians and South Africans.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know why Adminejad believes that Israel must be destroyed...and soon?

I haven't seen the reason mentioned yet in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try Googling Ahmadinejad Mahdi Israel

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

what's the over/under for the US to nuclear bomb iran (I mean, that's a public plan) and

call it

preemptive genocide?

I personallylike "preemptive genocide", but think genocide will be replaced. maybe "preemptive iranicide"? ooh here's a good one - "preventicide".

The US says it's new doctrine of preventicide demanded that they nuclear bombed iran back into the stone age.

I like it. maybe preempticide?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Ahmadinejad didn't say "Israel must be wiped off the map", but something similar to "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time"

2) The reason why is that "all native Palestinians, whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews, should be allowed to take part in a general referendum before the eyes of the world and decide on a Palestinian government. Any government that is the result of this referendum will be a legitimate government." (Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei)


3) I don't see how wanting the current regime of Israel to disappear is synonymous with exterminating Jews. Wanting the fall of USSR or of the apartheid regime in South Africa doesn't mean we want to kill all Russians and South Africans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahmadinejad said:

""The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

Iran supports Hamas. In the Hamas Charter, Article 7, it says:

"The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

The verse in the Charter is taken from the hadith, which along with the Q'uran is one of the basic texts of Islam. The hadith contains actions or statements attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. The verse in Article 7 contains a quote attributed to the Prophet Muhammad.

edit: Iran supports Hezbollah. Nasrallah, Hezbollah's leader quoted:

"In the New Yorker, 14/10/02: “If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli.”

In the Lebanese paper Daily Star, 23/10/02: “If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...and of its allies and spiritual predecessors.

This is why I don't think Iran can be allowed to get The Bomb. Not that Iran would be likely to use it directly, but because it's goal is quite literally the extermination of the Jewish race: the same goal as the head of Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah and ally of Iran; the same goal as the earlier Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini; the same goal as Sayid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani want genocide, plain and simple. That doesn't mean they will actually DO it but this is what these guys have STATED and what they BELIEVE (edit: Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad have stated it a bit more obliquely or less explicitly than some of the others but it is still pretty clear what they are saying).

I'm aware that the USA has greatly erred in Iraq and that Iran may legitimately feel threatened. Iran's regime's political goals and spiritual goals ARE opposed to nearly every Western ideal of freedom and human and civil rights. Iran wants to export and expand its "Islamic Revolution", and the USA is of course opposed to that. Iran is sandwiched militarily at the moment from all sides. So Iran is quite understandably feeling threatened.

All that is small, IMO, compared to the following. It is absolutely terrifying what these guys think.

I've posted many statements by Ahmadinejad before. The following video gives recent and historical quotes of others as well, and insight into the much larger picture: the picture of genocidal plans, genocidal desires and genocidal ideology.

The aims of today's Iranian regime, their allies, and jihadists worldwide include the extermination of the Jews. The historical connection to carrying on Hitler's work is outlined too, from Grand Mufti al-Husseini's plans to build a Middle Eastern Auschwitz, to Egypt's second-largest newspaper's praise of Hitler's vengeance against the Jews (the only regret is that Hitler didn't go far enough), to modern quotes of various Middle Eastern religious leaders, and more.


Video: THE ISLAMIC MEIN KAMPF


Thanks for reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much do you get paid to spread this propaganda? Serious question.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's rather amazing to me that anyone can read the quotes of Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani, Khomeini, Nasrallah, al-Bannar, Sayyid Qutb, and many others: ALL of which believe the Jews are responsible for the ills of the world and want to have an Israel-free, Jew-free world, and then you think I am spreading propaganda.

Read the quotes, and please, get your head out of the ether.

This is regrettably one of the few times I've felt like being rude on this forum, but people are repeatedly espousing GENOCIDE, yet you (and Bobman) think cataloguing and presenting that is propaganda. Was it the music that threw you guys off, perhaps? Read the quotes and tell us you don't think they're in favor of genocide. Or turn down your audio and don't even listen; just read. These guys want genocide. Therefore they can't have The Bomb, even though they probably wouldn't use it (at least not directly).

[/ QUOTE ]

With your help, I now see what's going on. Iran has been patiently biding its time for 30 years now, but will one day in the immediate future launch its dastardly plan to wipe out Israel. It will likely do so with its cutting edge air force and massive stockpile of nuclear weapons. That whole "war" that Iran had with Iraq was just to throw America-hating liberal dupes off the trail of Iran's true intentions in the Middle East.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

I'm telling you, this "wiped off the map" phrase is

1) A translation error
2) Taken out of context


From wikipedia:

[ QUOTE ]


Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, translates the Persian phrase as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[10]

According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[11]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly:

[T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.[12]



[/ QUOTE ]



Also, read this speech from the supreme leader of Iran. Does it seem to you that he wants to attack Israel and kill the Jews?

http://www.khamenei.ir/EN/Speech/det...p?id=20051104A


[ QUOTE ]


We hold a fair and logical stance on the issue of Palestine. Several decades ago, Egyptian statesman Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was the most popular Arab personality, stated in his slogans that the Egyptians would throw the Jewish usurpers of Palestine into the sea. Some years later, Saddam Hussein, the most hated Arab figure, said that he would put half of the Palestinian land on fire. But we would not approve of either of these two remarks.

We believe, according to our Islamic principles, that neither throwing the Jews into the sea nor putting the Palestinian land on fire is logical and reasonable. Our position is that the Palestinian people should regain their rights. Palestine belongs to Palestinians, and the fate of Palestine should also be determined by the Palestinian people.

The issue of Palestine is a criterion for judging how truthful those claiming to support democracy and human rights are in their claims. The Islamic Republic of Iran has presented a fair and logical solution to this issue. We have suggested that all native Palestinians, whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews, should be allowed to take part in a general referendum before the eyes of the world and decide on a Palestinian government. Any government that is the result of this referendum will be a legitimate government.



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
With your help, I now see what's going on. Iran has been patiently biding its time for 30 years now, but will one day in the immediate future launch its dastardly plan to wipe out Israel. It will likely do so with its cutting edge air force and massive stockpile of nuclear weapons. That whole "war" that Iran had with Iraq was just to throw America-hating liberal dupes off the trail of Iran's true intentions in the Middle East.

[/ QUOTE ]

The U.S.A. financed that war, selling arms to both sides at discount, in a hope they'd destroy each others economies.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm telling you, this "wiped off the map" phrase is

1) A translation error
2) Taken out of context


From wikipedia:

[ QUOTE ]


Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, translates the Persian phrase as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[10]

According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[11]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly:

[T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.[12]



[/ QUOTE ]



Also, read this speech from the supreme leader of Iran. Does it seem to you that he wants to attack Israel and kill the Jews?

http://www.khamenei.ir/EN/Speech/det...p?id=20051104A


[ QUOTE ]


We hold a fair and logical stance on the issue of Palestine. Several decades ago, Egyptian statesman Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was the most popular Arab personality, stated in his slogans that the Egyptians would throw the Jewish usurpers of Palestine into the sea. Some years later, Saddam Hussein, the most hated Arab figure, said that he would put half of the Palestinian land on fire. But we would not approve of either of these two remarks.

We believe, according to our Islamic principles, that neither throwing the Jews into the sea nor putting the Palestinian land on fire is logical and reasonable. Our position is that the Palestinian people should regain their rights. Palestine belongs to Palestinians, and the fate of Palestine should also be determined by the Palestinian people.

The issue of Palestine is a criterion for judging how truthful those claiming to support democracy and human rights are in their claims. The Islamic Republic of Iran has presented a fair and logical solution to this issue. We have suggested that all native Palestinians, whether they are Muslims, Christians or Jews, should be allowed to take part in a general referendum before the eyes of the world and decide on a Palestinian government. Any government that is the result of this referendum will be a legitimate government.



[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it is a translation error. Given the nature of the other statements, it wouldn't be surprising were it not, though.

Khameini's speech does not seem as though he wants to attack Israel, but Ahmadinejad too often talks about being "logical and fair" or :just and reasonable", or some such...then he comes out with statements like "There are no homosexuals in Iran, like you have in your country". Some reasonable statements do not tell us what all else he might be thinking.

By the way, I don't think that Iran will be attacking Israel any time soon (if ever). I just think that because of the Iranian regime's beliefs (and authoritarian basis), it must not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. I think they would be fairly happy with genocide if they could get away with it, and that is too much to be allowed nukes, IMO. Note the mullah's regime's support for the genocidal Hamas and Hezbollah, for instance. It doesn't matter that they probably won't put it into action: no nukes for those who favor genocide. Their regime and their ideology is flawed and evil, and IMO should not be further empowered or made more threatening by the attainment of nuclear weapons.

Thanks for reading.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With your help, I now see what's going on. Iran has been patiently biding its time for 30 years now, but will one day in the immediate future launch its dastardly plan to wipe out Israel. It will likely do so with its cutting edge air force and massive stockpile of nuclear weapons. That whole "war" that Iran had with Iraq was just to throw America-hating liberal dupes off the trail of Iran's true intentions in the Middle East.

[/ QUOTE ]

The U.S.A. financed that war, selling arms to both sides at discount, in a hope they'd destroy each others economies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I'd always assumed that this photo is a clever fake.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/arc...ld-hussein.jpg

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

aren't there jews in iran?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

My interpretation of Ahmadinejad's wish for Israel to disappear is that he wants the regime to disappear, in the same way as USSR, the shah or Iran fell. And "allow the Palestinian people to decide about its future for itself."

I will be quoting his speech at Columbia.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/202820.php

[ QUOTE ]
What we say is that to solve the 60-year problem we must allow the Palestinian people to decide about its future for itself. This is compatible with the spirit of the Charter of the United Nations and the fundamental principles enshrined in it. We must allow Jewish Palestinians, Muslim Palestinians and Christian Palestinians to determine their own fate themselves through a free referendum. Whatever they choose as a nation everybody should accept and respect. Nobody should interfere in the affairs of the Palestinian nation. Nobody should sow the seeds of discord. Nobody should spend tens of billions of dollars equipping and arming one group there.
We say allow the Palestinian nation to decide its own future, to have the right to self-determination for itself. This is what we are saying as the Iranian nation.

[/ QUOTE ]

As for nuclear weapons, he has always claimed that he only wants civil nuclear power.

[ QUOTE ]

Making nuclear, chemical and biological bombs and weapons of mass destruction is yet another result of the misuse of science and research by the big powers.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

We do not believe in nuclear weapons, period. It goes against the whole grain of humanity.
I think the politicians who are after atomic bombs or are testing them, making them -- politically they are backward, retarded.


[/ QUOTE ]


Also Iran is a signatory of the non proliferation treaty and hasn't violated it.

[ QUOTE ]
(wikipedia) The treaty is sometimes interpreted as having three pillars: non-proliferation, disarmament, and the right to peacefully use nuclear technology

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we should let Iran build peaceful nuclear technology, while finding a way to watch over their activities.
Otherwise, why are we letting Egypt build a nuclear plant, why is France going to build a plant in Libya?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

How is Iran any different from the U.S.? All states will inherently move towards evil because they exist solely to coerce. Why would you trust ANY state with Nukes?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is Iran any different from the U.S.? All states will inherently move towards evil because they exist solely to coerce. Why would you trust ANY state with Nukes?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't entirely, but I'd trust the USA, England, France, Australia a whole lot more than I'd trust Iran. How about you, would you trust all states equally with nukes?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

[ QUOTE ]
My interpretation of Ahmadinejad's wish for Israel to disappear is that he wants the regime to disappear, in the same way as USSR, the shah or Iran fell. And "allow the Palestinian people to decide about its future for itself."

I will be quoting his speech at Columbia.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/202820.php

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What we say is that to solve the 60-year problem we must allow the Palestinian people to decide about its future for itself. This is compatible with the spirit of the Charter of the United Nations and the fundamental principles enshrined in it. We must allow Jewish Palestinians, Muslim Palestinians and Christian Palestinians to determine their own fate themselves through a free referendum. Whatever they choose as a nation everybody should accept and respect. Nobody should interfere in the affairs of the Palestinian nation. Nobody should sow the seeds of discord. Nobody should spend tens of billions of dollars equipping and arming one group there.
We say allow the Palestinian nation to decide its own future, to have the right to self-determination for itself. This is what we are saying as the Iranian nation.

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As for nuclear weapons, he has always claimed that he only wants civil nuclear power.

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Making nuclear, chemical and biological bombs and weapons of mass destruction is yet another result of the misuse of science and research by the big powers.


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We do not believe in nuclear weapons, period. It goes against the whole grain of humanity.
I think the politicians who are after atomic bombs or are testing them, making them -- politically they are backward, retarded.


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Also Iran is a signatory of the non proliferation treaty and hasn't violated it.

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(wikipedia) The treaty is sometimes interpreted as having three pillars: non-proliferation, disarmament, and the right to peacefully use nuclear technology

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I think we should let Iran build peaceful nuclear technology, while finding a way to watch over their activities.
Otherwise, why are we letting Egypt build a nuclear plant, why is France going to build a plant in Libya?

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You sure do seem to be giving a regime which believes in hanging gays for being gay, and in hanging teenage girls for promiscuity, a lot of the benefit of the doubt. Hamas and Hezbollah appear even more bluntly to believe in genocide, and Iran is their sponsor and ally.

A lot of people gave Hitler the benefit of the doubt for quite some time, too - until he grew powerful enough to prove them wrong.

I don't understand giving evil people or evil regimes the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean I think Iran should be bombed (I'm not at all sure what should be done) but I do think it is a pure "sucker" move to give the mullahs the benefit of the doubt. Neville Chamberlain was a sucker, and so in my opinion too are those who think Iran isn't going to be building nuclear weapons.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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I wouldn't entirely, but I'd trust the USA, England, France, Australia a whole lot more than I'd trust Iran. How about you, would you trust all states equally with nukes?

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well going by who has used them, its 1-0 US vs. rest of world.

and US is only country to threaten to nuke in the immediate future (US openly plans to nuke iran, according to numerous people like seymour hersh.)

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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I wouldn't entirely, but I'd trust the USA, England, France, Australia a whole lot more than I'd trust Iran. How about you, would you trust all states equally with nukes?

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well going by who has used them, its 1-0 US vs. rest of world.

and US is only country to threaten to nuke in the immediate future (US openly plans to nuke iran, according to numerous people like seymour hersh.)

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The nuking of Japan in WWII involved a major war already in progress and debatably it may have saved many lives (let's not debate that here in this thread; it has been debated extensively already on this forum). Conventional bombings had caused more deaths. A country using nukes is not necessarily the same as a country using nukes irresponsibly or in pure aggression or in trying to commit genocide. Hitler didn't use nukes but what he did was a lot worse, right?

So you apparently don't care about what a regime believes; that has no impact at all on whether that regime should have nukes??? Is that your viewpoint, that ideology doesn't matter?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you apparently don't care about what a regime believes; that has no impact at all on whether that regime should have nukes??? Is that your viewpoint, that ideology doesn't matter?

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as far as I'm aware, the only country that has used them is US, and the only country to seriously threaten to use them is the US ("tactical" nukes vs. iran in a massive aerial assault which would cripple iranian military at the very least).

so in my opinion that's the main answer to the question of, which countries which you trust with nukes.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you apparently don't care about what a regime believes; that has no impact at all on whether that regime should have nukes??? Is that your viewpoint, that ideology doesn't matter?

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as far as I'm aware, the only country that has used them is US, and the only country to seriously threaten to use them is the US ("tactical" nukes vs. iran in a massive aerial assault which would cripple iranian military at the very least).

so in my opinion that's the main answer to the question of, which countries which you trust with nukes.

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So you think the use of nuclear weapons is the only determining factor in whether they were used responsibly (or threatened to be used). In other words, your position is that any use or threatened use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances = irresponsible?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you think the use of nuclear weapons is the only determining factor in whether they were used responsibly (or threatened to be used). In other words, your position is that any use or threatened use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances = irresponsible?

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It's implied in your question; which countries can be trusted to have nukes *and not to use them*.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you think the use of nuclear weapons is the only determining factor in whether they were used responsibly (or threatened to be used). In other words, your position is that any use or threatened use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances = irresponsible?

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It's implied in your question; which countries can be trusted to have nukes *and not to use them*.

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That is not a question I asked.

What matters is which countries could be more trusted to have nukes; you added the "and not to use them" part all by yourself.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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That is not a question I asked.

What matters is which countries could be more trusted to have nukes; you added the "and not to use them" part all by yourself.

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but isn't that the point. I mean country A has nukes and is trusted to have nukes because it is a peaceful country.
country B cannot be trusted to have nukes because it is felt B will use them and cause destruction.

that's really the only criterion; it seems like you're arguing that iran can't be trusted because iran will use nukes.
All I'm saying is that to get away from opinion and look at historical facts and also some current event stuff(tactical nuke iran by US), the US is far and away the least trustworthy country today.


I mean, if trusting a country to have nukes doesn't mean having nukes but not using them, what else could it possibly mean? (using them in self defense *after* being attacked could still qualify as trusted not to use them I guess.)

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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I mean, if trusting a country to have nukes doesn't mean having nukes but not using them, what else could it possibly mean?


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It could mean being unlikely to use them irresponsibly, or not using them to further an evil ideology.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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It could mean being unlikely to use them irresponsibly, or not using them to further an evil ideology.

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too vague, stuff like that is meaningless.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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It could mean being unlikely to use them irresponsibly, or not using them to further an evil ideology.

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too vague, stuff like that is meaningless.

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It's only meaningless if you aren't capable of good judgment.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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How is Iran any different from the U.S.? All states will inherently move towards evil because they exist solely to coerce. Why would you trust ANY state with Nukes?

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I dont know for sure if this is solely a gimmick account, but if it isn't rest assured I am VERY dissapointed

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you think the use of nuclear weapons is the only determining factor in whether they were used responsibly (or threatened to be used). In other words, your position is that any use or threatened use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances = irresponsible?

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It's implied in your question; which countries can be trusted to have nukes *and not to use them*.

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That is not a question I asked.

What matters is which countries could be more trusted to have nukes; you added the "and not to use them" part all by yourself.

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Trusted should be only those countries which would use them in self-defense in case of heavy attack from outside. Please take a bird's perspective: if Iran would have 5 nukes today - who you think would use them first in attack over another country: USA or Iran? I wouldn't bet on Iran here.

Another question. Iran's president is making silly comments and threatening Israel. That's wrong and you're saying it should be nuked because of that. At the same time the other country is using similar language and is threatening Iran with nukes and that is ok? It's about the same question - who could be more trusted to not attack the other sovereign country?

next thing - how many countries did Iran attacked in the last century? and how many countries did other 'responsible or democratic' countries with nukes attacked in the last century?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you think the use of nuclear weapons is the only determining factor in whether they were used responsibly (or threatened to be used). In other words, your position is that any use or threatened use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances = irresponsible?

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It's implied in your question; which countries can be trusted to have nukes *and not to use them*.

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That is not a question I asked.

What matters is which countries could be more trusted to have nukes; you added the "and not to use them" part all by yourself.

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Trusted should be only those countries which would use them in self-defense in case of heavy attack from outside. Please take a bird's perspective: if Iran would have 5 nukes today - who you think would use them first in attack over another country: USA or Iran? I wouldn't bet on Iran here.

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I'd bet on Iran. If the USA (or Israel) were to engage in direct conventional warfare with Iran, I'd bet Iran would be more likely to use a nuke on Israel. Let's specify a major difference between nuking cities with a nuke to kill many people, or merely using a tactical bunker-busting bomb with a small nuke charge in order to get through many tens of feet of hardened reinforced concrete in military installation. Huge difference. I'd think Iran would be more likely than the USA to nuke a city to kill hundreds of thousands or millions.

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Another question. Iran's president is making silly comments and threatening Israel. That's wrong and you're saying it should be nuked because of that.

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I'm not saying anything of the sort. Don't know how you even got that idea but I'm definitely not. I'm not even fully convinced that there should be airstrikes on Iran's military/nuke research facilities. I just think that Iran can't be allowed to gain nukes.

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At the same time the other country is using similar language and is threatening Iran with nukes and that is ok? It's about the same question - who could be more trusted to not attack the other sovereign country?

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That's not what I view as being the key question. IF there could be a surgical strike on nuke facilities (a huge IF, I grant you) that would constitute an attack but not a greatly evil act. If, on the other hand, Iran were to nuke Israel in a first attack, striking for instance Tel Aviv with a bomb designed to kill everyone in the city, that would be a monumentally evil act.

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next thing - how many countries did Iran attacked in the last century? and how many countries did other 'responsible or democratic' countries with nukes attacked in the last century?

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I think the answer to that question does not ascertain the morality of it, because it is so highly debatable as to whetgher the USA acted wisely and morally, or needlessly and immorally, in nuking Japan during WWII. Many arguments have been presented on both sides: did it save millions of lives, or not? Was Japan about to stop resisting anyway, or not? It's been debated to death already so let's not try to determine those things here and now in this thread. Also, a major war was already in progress and Japan was the initial aggressor. So I don't think your question provides a useful basis for judging which countries might use nukes responsibly or irresponsibly, moraly or immorally.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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How is Iran any different from the U.S.? All states will inherently move towards evil because they exist solely to coerce. Why would you trust ANY state with Nukes?

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I wouldn't entirely, but I'd trust the USA, England, France, Australia a whole lot more than I'd trust Iran. How about you, would you trust all states equally with nukes?

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Who do you think Iran trusts more with a nuke? Us or them? So what makes you (or us) the sole qualifier of who can have nukes and who cant?

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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So you think the use of nuclear weapons is the only determining factor in whether they were used responsibly (or threatened to be used). In other words, your position is that any use or threatened use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances = irresponsible?

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It's implied in your question; which countries can be trusted to have nukes *and not to use them*.

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That is not a question I asked.

What matters is which countries could be more trusted to have nukes; you added the "and not to use them" part all by yourself.

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Trusted should be only those countries which would use them in self-defense in case of heavy attack from outside. Please take a bird's perspective: if Iran would have 5 nukes today - who you think would use them first in attack over another country: USA or Iran? I wouldn't bet on Iran here.

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I'd bet on Iran. If the USA (or Israel) were to engage in direct conventional warfare with Iran, I'd bet Iran would be more likely to use a nuke on Israel. Let's specify a major difference between nuking cities with a nuke to kill many people, or merely using a tactical bunker-busting bomb with a small nuke charge in order to get through many tens of feet of hardened reinforced concrete in military installation. Huge difference. I'd think Iran would be more likely than the USA to nuke a city to kill hundreds of thousands or millions.

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My answer was on your specific question - i say only those who would use them as a defense weapon. Any country using them otherwise should not have it.

I don't know why, but you have changed the situation here into armed conflict. In that case i'd always say a defender has a right to use nukes (as i say as defensive weapon). If they'd be attacked it is their right to protect their land against aggressor, right? Wouldn't Israel have a right to use all its weapons in case of attack? Should USA leave its nukes behind if attacked from outside?
I won't even make a comment about your how one site would be using nukes in a humanitarian way and the other wouldn't. We're talking about nukes here.

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Another question. Iran's president is making silly comments and threatening Israel. That's wrong and you're saying it should be nuked because of that.

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I'm not saying anything of the sort. Don't know how you even got that idea but I'm definitely not. I'm not even fully convinced that there should be airstrikes on Iran's military/nuke research facilities. I just think that Iran can't be allowed to gain nukes.

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At the same time the other country is using similar language and is threatening Iran with nukes and that is ok? It's about the same question - who could be more trusted to not attack the other sovereign country?

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That's not what I view as being the key question. IF there could be a surgical strike on nuke facilities (a huge IF, I grant you) that would constitute an attack but not a greatly evil act. If, on the other hand, Iran were to nuke Israel in a first attack, striking for instance Tel Aviv with a bomb designed to kill everyone in the city, that would be a monumentally evil act.

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Why talking about surgical operations? Iraq used to be one as well and many people still see it that way no matter it caused over one million dead. There's nothing surgical in wars and that's never a goal. Also i'd never accept that attacking other country without being attacked first is not evil. What's evil then? It sounds like breaking into someone's house and attacking or murdering him and his family should be acceptable sometimes.

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next thing - how many countries did Iran attacked in the last century? and how many countries did other 'responsible or democratic' countries with nukes attacked in the last century?

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I think the answer to that question does not ascertain the morality of it, because it is so highly debatable as to whetgher the USA acted wisely and morally, or needlessly and immorally, in nuking Japan during WWII. Many arguments have been presented on both sides: did it save millions of lives, or not? Was Japan about to stop resisting anyway, or not? It's been debated to death already so let's not try to determine those things here and now in this thread. Also, a major war was already in progress and Japan was the initial aggressor. So I don't think your question provides a useful basis for judging which countries might use nukes responsibly or irresponsibly, moraly or immorally.

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I didn't mean nuking Japan here. What i meant is how many countries did Iran attack since WWII and how many countries did USA attack since WWII (or other countries that have nukes)?

I don't mean Iran should have nukes, but that we should be objective. Thx for your reply. (check it here too)

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

Why does the US have to stop the Jews from getting genocided? We've already hooked up the Israelis with lots of nukes, why can't we just cut ties and let them sort it out.

(Obviously Jewish-Americans are the responsibility of the US but I don't get why we concern ourselves with these others.)

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I'd think Iran would be more likely than the USA to nuke a city to kill hundreds of thousands or millions.

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wtf dude. There actually is a precedent here. The USA has done this.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

Ahmedinejad is a nut. I agree with you that it would be muc better for the Iranian regime not to have nuclear weapons. But if the regime's intention is really the Nazi-like genocide of Jews, why hasn't it killed its own small Jewish population? Or anything remotely approximating that? (Please don't respond with examples of mistreatment of Jews in Iran. I am well aware of them. But nonetheless Iran is not anything like Nazi Germany for its Jewish population).

Silly arguments like this just push people into over-sympathising with the likes of AJad. Also conflating the likes of Salafai zealots and Khomeni-ists is just ignorant.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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...But if the regime's intention is really the Nazi-like genocide of Jews, why hasn't it killed its own small Jewish population? ...

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Perhaps fearing a reprisal from Israel that's not that far away (a country that has nukes too).

IMO you offer a silly rationale for downplaying the danager of a Nazi-like genocide btw.

Re: The Hitler-Like Basis of the Iranian Regime\'s Ideology
 

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How is Iran any different from the U.S.? All states will inherently move towards evil because they exist solely to coerce. Why would you trust ANY state with Nukes?

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The idiotic liberal moral equivalency BS rears it's ugly head again. Here's a clue for you, there's a great deal of difference between the Iranian government and the U.S. government.