borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

dealer deals out a hand, sb notices he only has one card. dealer assumes he made a mistake, misdeal. and it so happens his down is over, and he instructs next dealer to count the deck to be sure. next dealer puts the deck in the shufflemaster, shufflemaster says all 52 are there.
we use the deck, the next time the deck goes through, it comes up 52 again. the third time through, it says 51, and we check under the rail (nobody checked earlier because the rail appeared tight and unlikely a card could get under) and theres card #52.
next day, same table, dealer is taking cards out of the machine, and some cards spill a little. it appeared to me that a card fell onto the other deck that the dealer loaded into the machine. i tell him, but he says no (the colors are extremely similar for some reason), they were ok. he deals the hand, whatever. machine says 52 cards for the other deck. he takes out the deck and spreads it to check the backs, and theres a card from the other deck in there.

so, at best, the machines (at least this one), are unreliable. shift said they had one other similar complaint about a different machine.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

I've seen some machines that repeatedly report that cards are missing when hand counts show 52.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

Reporting missing cards is common. Machines aren't serviced properly and cards are dirty and sticky. I'll generally try a deck two or three times when it gives a short count, and if it comes up correct one of those times, I'll use it but count the stub.

I had a fun time once a while ago when a deck consistently came up short. I attempted to subtly inform a floorman of this. The wrong floorman. The one who reacts as if it's a personal attack when you inform him of how many seats you have open. Anyway, he loudly talked down to me that the machines get sticky and that the deck was fine. No, really, floorman, I've tried it several times, please check the deck. I TOLD YOU IT'S FINE.

Yeah, so, these days I try a different floorman and simply report that I have a sticky deck and would like a new setup.

But back to the OP, I've never had that situation arise. That's a borked machine.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

Bravo for counting the stub. So few dealers these days even know what counting the stub is. Bravo again for checking even tho there's a machine. Shufflers are today's poker dealer's excuse for absolutely never bothering to check for 52 cards ever, no matter what. I have had more than one dealer not even know what counting the stub was.

Shuffler machines do malfunction and do need maintenance. If you cheese on the maintenance you wind up with shufflers that need constant attention, jamming + whatnot. Since shufflers pay for themselves only by making the shuffle faster, they aren't paying for themselves if they aren't maintained + constantly jamming.

I've never heard of a situation like the OP, but I'm not surprised.

Al

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

Our shufflers are a joke. Only every now and again do I see a brush spray it out with compressed air. When I first started I'd see a guy do maintenance on them regularly, but maybe that apsect of the lease expired or something. Combine that with cards that are used too long, and miscounts and jamming are expected on every down. Usually one or two machines will be out of commission all night.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Our shufflers are a joke. Only every now and again do I see a brush spray it out with compressed air. When I first started I'd see a guy do maintenance on them regularly, but maybe that apsect of the lease expired or something. Combine that with cards that are used too long, and miscounts and jamming are expected on every down. Usually one or two machines will be out of commission all night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee, almost sounds like you work for a harrahs joint, where they stamp out efficiency wherever they find it.

Shuffle machines speed up the WORST dealers by a few hands an hour, my estimate in a previous thread was something like a MAXIMUM of 2 or 3 hands/down. Really fast dealers are not helped very much by shufflers. ANY TIME the dealer spends significant time screwing with the shuffler, the machine is not paying for itself, let alone making the house extra $

Al

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

At FW this weekend shuffler keeps showing the red light card missing indicator. Dealer asks floor for a new setup because its happening only with one deck, and then only every other time or so.

Floor declines request and instead has a new shuffler brought in and installed. Dealer manually counts "bad" deck and concludes it has 52.

Red light intermittently comes on the new shuffler on the same deck. Floor finally brings new setup (first time I ever thought a new setup was a good idea). Everything is fine after that.

Kudos to dealer who was so fast shuffling the "bad" deck I didn't realize he was doing it for several hands.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kudos to dealer who was so fast shuffling the "bad" deck I didn't realize he was doing it for several hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is getting rarer at Foxwoods since they've had shufflers for a while now. I've noticed lately that some dealers just sit there staring at the shuffler waiting for it to finish after a quick blind steal. Dealers that do this really slow down shorthanded games.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kudos to dealer who was so fast shuffling the "bad" deck I didn't realize he was doing it for several hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is getting rarer at Foxwoods since they've had shufflers for a while now. I've noticed lately that some dealers just sit there staring at the shuffler waiting for it to finish after a quick blind steal. Dealers that do this really slow down shorthanded games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny you should mention this. I was playing a wonderful short 4/8 game this weekend. (And for once, the players weren’t screaming to be moved to full tables.)

Unfortunately, this one particular dealer was constantly staring at the shufflemaster after the conclusion of a hand, waiting for it to finish shuffling the other deck. I eventually got frustrated and asked, “why don’t you just shuffle this one by hand?”

He looked at me with a blank expression for a moment, glanced at the machine, then looked back at me and said, “I’m waiting for the machine. It’s faster.”

And to think that I’d resolved to only say nice things about the poor souls who are trapped in the purgatory that is the life of a dealer in the Foxwoods poker room…

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
staring at the shuffler waiting for it to finish after a quick blind steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely cannot stand this. My gut feeling is that it happens in my room more than I'd like due to the questions I get occasionally when hand shuffling after a blind steal.
"Why are you doing that?" etc.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

Chuck,
Was it at 10/20 game?

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
staring at the shuffler waiting for it to finish after a quick blind steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely cannot stand this. My gut feeling is that it happens in my room more than I'd like due to the questions I get occasionally when hand shuffling after a blind steal.
"Why are you doing that?" etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to be annoyed when the dealer just waited, but I've noticed when the dealers shuffle up manually, it's pretty close to when the machine finishes too, so I find myself not being too annoyed anymore about this. Maybe saves 5-10 seconds.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

I know this is a horrible newbie question that has probably been answered 74 times already, but why are auto-shufflers used in cash games but not for tournaments?

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't - generally the Borg. wants either all tables to use shufflers in a MTT, or none.

So if they don't have enough functional machines, its none.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't - generally the Borg. wants either all tables to use shufflers in a MTT, or none.

So if they don't have enough functional machines, its none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, just one of those things that I didn't understand that bugged me.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
staring at the shuffler waiting for it to finish after a quick blind steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely cannot stand this. My gut feeling is that it happens in my room more than I'd like due to the questions I get occasionally when hand shuffling after a blind steal.
"Why are you doing that?" etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to be annoyed when the dealer just waited, but I've noticed when the dealers shuffle up manually, it's pretty close to when the machine finishes too, so I find myself not being too annoyed anymore about this. Maybe saves 5-10 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealer should not be sitting and waiting. It isn't that they finish about the same time the green light comes on it is if they hand shuffle they will have a deck ready for the next hand.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't - generally the Borg. wants either all tables to use shufflers in a MTT, or none.

So if they don't have enough functional machines, its none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, just one of those things that I didn't understand that bugged me.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah same here, so I asked one of the floors that I'm friendly with.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

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The dealer should not be sitting and waiting. It isn't that they finish about the same time the green light comes on it is if they hand shuffle they will have a deck ready for the next hand.

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Agreed. On a tight mid-limit game, if the light goes on any time during the scramble, I'll finish shuffling by hand, as (a) I'll finish around the same time as it'd have taken me to open the machine and swap the decks, and (b) the hand is likely to be over before it's done shuffling again. I also try to do time collection after a hand that finishes before the shuffler's done. On a lower stakes game where the fast hands are a rarity, I'll sometimes sell chips or throw out missed blind buttons or something to give the machine an extra second, but I don't stall very much. I very rarely stop between hands to unjam the machine. I'll just shuffle up and deal and fix it while the players are acting. Time is money, after all, and it's in my best interest to get out as many hands as quickly and cleanly as possible. More hands and better action that way.

fixing jams should not stall the game
 

I do the same thing, I un-jam the machine during the next hand, instead of between hands (thus stalling the game). All dealers should be able to un-jam the machine without dropping the deck in use, and without letting the action stall.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

I think there is a shufflemaster conspiracy. They have an absolute monopoly on the shuffle machines in Atlantic City and THEY SUCK at maintainance! Even if you have someone out once a week we still have three or four machines down by their next visit. Its just rediculous. The casinos pay money for those machines so they can get more hands out. The players want more hands because time is valuable to anyone. I think someone should start up a new shuffle company and get it kicked off in AC!

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

I'm pretty sure there's two companies who make the machines.

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

Never used them

Re: borgata shufflers not accurately counting cards
 

In all but the fastest blind steals, the machine is faster then having a dealer manually shuffle. Sure, if these dealer is lightning and can hammer out riffles like nothing, then ok, but these days most of the dealers take awhile doing those things by hand.

I've timed it, and in any game that isn't shorthanded there's no point -not- waiting for the shuffler. Looks stupid, but still saves time.