RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

How come many rakeback affiliates do not carry over to the next month negative balances and you do? Many also have LOTS of freerolls at plenty of sites for their affiliates and you only have the crappy rewards for activities that benefit you (most play and most referrals).

Aren't you one of the biggest affiliates in the bussiness? Shouldn't you be rewarding some more your loyal customers?

If a player plays enough to buy a plasma TV at the FT store, isn't it only fair that you absorbe the amount FT charges him? That player has made you plenty of money already and will probably continue to do so.

Please explain why you give less back to your players than other, smaller, affiliates.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

No idea the affiliates even did this at all never spent my FT points. Does TITN?

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How come many rakeback affiliates do not carry over to the next month negative balances and you do? Many also have LOTS of freerolls at plenty of sites for their affiliates and you only have the crappy rewards for activities that benefit you (most play and most referrals).

Aren't you one of the biggest affiliates in the bussiness? Shouldn't you be rewarding some more your loyal customers?

If a player plays enough to buy a plasma TV at the FT store, isn't it only fair that you absorbe the amount FT charges him? That player has made you plenty of money already and will probably continue to do so.

Please explain why you give less back to your players than other, smaller, affiliates.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I shouldn't have to defend our practices, I will make an attempt.

Since we allow cashout anytime, our system would be open to abuse. You could wait until the last day of the month to make a huge deposit on Full Tilt or use the Store costing several hundred dollars. This should be something Full Tilt eats, not the player or affiliate in my opinion, but why blame us?

If you get a new plasma TV, why again should we absorb that blow? Show me an affiliate who currently does this.

While I agree with you on the freerolls, it is not from lack of trying. We have always tried to do things different, and once our freeroll idea is a reality, I believe our membership will enjoy it. The problem has been finding a network that can support our idea, which we have finally found it on the Cake Network, it is just taking a little longer to roll out than normal. We will have a weekly freeroll rather than monthly.

At the end of the day, we are a business like everyone else.

And for LetsGetItOn [ QUOTE ]
No idea the affiliates even did this at all never spent my FT points. Does TITN?

[/ QUOTE ]

Every affiliate gets charged these and passes on this to the players, we are just one of the the only sites that shows the players what they get charged against their rake and why for informational purposes.

With kind regards,

RakeReduction

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

First, I have no negative balance at RR (to blueman).

Second, while I thank you for your response (RR) and while I unfortunately cannot show you which affiliates absorbe that cost, I know they exist and perhaps somebody will step forward and name a few.

Finally, FT is a site that sets a rakeback limit to 27% to the players while the affiliate, the more customers he brings, the higher the % he gets back. This, again, it is something I have heard from, in my opinion, reliable source but I have no means to confirm.
If it is not true, then I understand your position (I don't like it, but I understand it) but if it is true that the affiliate keeps earning more and more whithout the possibility of giving more back to the players (an excellent FT rule in your eyes, not that good in mine) then it would only be fair that you absorbed those costs.

Kindly,
William

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

William, you do understand that a rakeback relationship is a revenue sharing relationship. You have to take the good with the bad, both affiliate and player. You are not truly getting 27% of the rake you pay at Full Tilt, you are getting 27% of your total MGR. This is how rakeback has, and will always work.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Yes and I don't see what difference it makes to my question. If it is a fact that some affiliates don't carry over negative balances, why should others do. In every bussiness you have to make sure one partner doesn't suddenly gets away with the biggest piece of the cake and if the % that RR gets from us has been increasing as they grow themselves, we are stucked at 27% while they get richer and richer.

Of course it is extremely difficult to know what the affiliates really get as they all stick togheter and share this precious secret with no one.

I think it is only reasonable to demand explanations/improvements every now and then to insure a fair sharing of the amount the sites give back.

And once again, if no other affiliate absorbes the store/freerolls/etc.. costs from FT and the affiliates are just as stucked as we are at a fixed rakeback %, then no changes need to be made; but from what I hear, it is not the case.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

With RR it's a trade, if you want to cashout on demand then you have to deal with neg carryovers. If you are willing to wait with another affiliate then you don't get neg carryovers in most cases. RR is right, their system would be primed for abuse if they allowed you to cash out and then go buy a $1000 item in their store on the last day of the month.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
With RR it's a trade, if you want to cashout on demand then you have to deal with neg carryovers. If you are willing to wait with another affiliate then you don't get neg carryovers in most cases. RR is right, their system would be primed for abuse if they allowed you to cash out and then go buy a $1000 item in their store on the last day of the month.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is rubbish. If you could not cash out on demand, you could still buy at the store and not play at FT for the next month or so. It's not like you can't survive playing somewhere else (also with RB) for a month every now and then.
At the very least you would have the choice of keep playing and paying or taking a month break and not paying.


Not to mention that with the current system you could spend all your points at once just after cashing out from RR and never play at FT again. In that case they would not only lose the amount FT claims but the future income from that player as well.

RR is excellent in many regards, but they need to be less greedy and start giving back a little more. All the explanations about not finding a site for the freerolls is shady as well. Practically every other affiliate has something in place, usually a freeroll per site every month. Why should they be the only ones to encounter problems setting something up?

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

All the explanations about not finding a site for the freerolls is shady as well. Practically every other affiliate has something in place, usually a freeroll per site every month. Why should they be the only ones to encounter problems setting something up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the word 'shady' is very wrong here. Like I said, we are trying to setup a very very unique freeroll and all the of the major sites are not willing to do what we want to do. We want this to be a weekly freeroll for starters. We expect the prize pool to be anywhere from $3000 - $6000 per week. We need it to only allow certain players (players who qualify). The only site who would even listen to our idea was Bodog, but they do not allow Canadian users, so we couldnt use them.

At the end of the day, we will be doing this on the Cake Network, but again, it is a very unique idea, and once it's rolled out, you will understand why.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

William is quite obviously wrong here and RR pointed out exactly how this could happen.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

william, you still haven't really addressed the issue of how RR would deal with people who would abuse the cashout system if negative balances didn't roll over. One of the few rewards that Full Tilt offers is the Iron Man Promotion, so I can see how the regs would not want to give up for a month and play somewhere else like you mentioned in order to get by the negative rollover.

I mean, just speaking for myself, I have given stars a lot more of my action lately, but I still play on Full Tilt enough to make silver, so that I can stay in the challenge.

The others who have posted are right in this regard and lion makes a good point with the revenue sharing system, this is how a business works

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How come many rakeback affiliates do not carry over to the next month negative balances and you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused by this - how can the main basis of your complaint be that many affiliates don't carry over the negative balance, then you can't actually name them! God what a douche - you come here, drag a sites name down, then do nothing to back up your claims.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How come many rakeback affiliates do not carry over to the next month negative balances and you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused by this - how can the main basis of your complaint be that many affiliates don't carry over the negative balance, then you can't actually name them! God what a douche - you come here, drag a sites name down, then do nothing to back up your claims.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are countless threads about this in the IG forum. As usual, nobody wants to mention names.

Another matter are the transactions fees when using a Visa CC to deposit to FT.
From what I can see, those fees amount to 12,26% of the transfer.
This assuming that I am paying 27% of the fee Visa actually is charging FT. Can this be true? Or is there also here something I have misunderstood?

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]

There are countless threads about this in the IG forum. As usual, nobody wants to mention names.

Another matter are the transactions fees when using a Visa CC to deposit to FT.
From what I can see, those fees amount to 12,26% of the transfer.
This assuming that I am paying 27% of the fee Visa actually is charging FT. Can this be true? Or is there also here something I have misunderstood?

[/ QUOTE ]

Name 1 rakeback affiliate who carries over the balance that let's you cash out everyday??? Huge difference between one that allows you to cashout everyday and one that does not. Let me ask you a question. If you do a chargeback at Full Tilt for $4000 in a month, would you expect Rakereduction to wipe that debt out starting a new month? Who is supposed to pay for that?

Also, I believe your issues are with Full Tilt and the credit card processors, NOT with rakereduction. It seems to me you are mad at the high fees and since rr shows you what they are, you are for some reason pissed at them. Everyone gets charged these fees that gets rakeback, everyone.

You sir, are way out of line

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

If you do a chargeback at Full Tilt for $4000 in a month, would you expect Rakereduction to wipe that debt out starting a new month? Who is supposed to pay for that?

As usual, we are dealing with morons that are desperately looking for totally out of contest and extreme examples. If you truly believe I expected RR to absorbe for my eventual chargeback (I may add that it might be in your habits to cheat, rob or whatever you want to call it, but not in mines) then I am really sorry I started this thread. You people must love being taken advantage for.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
(I may add that it might be in your habits to cheat, rob or whatever you want to call it, but not in mines)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is where the problem lies. Just because you would not abuse the system does not mean others would not either. Fraud is a much bigger problem in the industry then most think. Abusing a cashback now system would not be fraud in most cases but it could certainly be used to abuse promotions if they absorbed the end of month negatives. The $4000 chargeback is an extreme example, a better example would be the large deposit or plasma TV.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(I may add that it might be in your habits to cheat, rob or whatever you want to call it, but not in mines)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is where the problem lies. Just because you would not abuse the system does not mean others would not either. Fraud is a much bigger problem in the industry then most think. Abusing a cashback now system would not be fraud in most cases but it could certainly be used to abuse promotions if they absorbed the end of month negatives. The $4000 chargeback is an extreme example, a better example would be the large deposit or plasma TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you. I also mean that absorbing the expense a plasma tv generates would not be out of place as the player in question has been playing a LOT to afford the TV; and assuming the affiliate has grown big enough to be making a serious benefit from its players.

Of course it would be easier if we knew what a large affiliate such as RR gets back from FT. I am not asking for somehting the numbers show can't be done, I just want a fair share of what WE generate but nobody will tell us how much WE generate. This specially applies in this case because the 27% limit set by FT is VERY convenient for the affiliates but they could do a "gesture" by absorbing other costs.

That RR has been saying "it will soon happen" for almost a year now when asked about the freerolls (or any other kind of gesture towards their clients) without nothing really happening shows at best a lack of big, big enthousiasm about giving anything away.

Every bussiness deal needs to be renegociated when one of the partners show clear signs of suddenly having the best of it. Affiliates deals should not be an exception.

Notice as well the total silence from other affiliates in this thread when they usually are all over the place commenting everything and trying to pick up an extra player or two by promoting their own site.

Touchy subject, I agree.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

It's my understanding all the big time affiliates get 35% off players they send to Full Tilt.

While 8% may seem like alot to you, surely have to consider running costs which include paying staff, contests, freerolls (Although these don't apply from what I read), advertising, charge backs from other players.

It is also my understand the 27% is not negotiable at Full Tilt.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Every bussiness deal needs to be renegociated when one of the partners show clear signs of suddenly having the best of it. Affiliates deals should not be an exception.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, what? Sometimes businesses will do this, but it is certainly not a given. How happy would you be if an affiliate wanted to lower your RB?

[ QUOTE ]
Notice as well the total silence from other affiliates in this thread when they usually are all over the place commenting everything and trying to pick up an extra player or two by promoting their own site.

Touchy subject, I agree.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fairly professional of them, I think. They do business a little differently, but they are abstaining from jumping on RR for the way they do things. Plus, I doubt PA would put up with much of that.

Unfortunately for you if you are so unhappy with RR, FT is one of the few sites that seems to be extremely loyal to their affiliates, and this leaves you in a poor bargaining position. RR can basically say "take it or leave it", and there's not a lot you can do. That being said, I'm sure they want to get continued business from you and others, and are listening to your concerns.

The way I see it, this cap FT has put in place means there are fewer areas for affiliates to use to stand apart from one another. Daily payouts is one, no negative carryover is another. Unless I'm mistaken, FT only pays out to their affiliates once per month, so RR is already giving back some of their money when they give it to you as much as a month or more before they get it. It seems that's the trade-off you make when you sign up with RR...you can get daily payouts, but your negative balance carries over.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I'm mistaken, FT only pays out to their affiliates once per month, so RR is already giving back some of their money when they give it to you as much as a month or more before they get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct they only pay once a month. Also RR is taking the risk (albeit an extremely small one) that the poker room defaults on affiliate payments. Who remembers PokerNow? I'm sure there was another but can't think of who it was.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

4 of 7 twoplustwo rakeback affiliates carry over negative balances. Of the 3 that do not at least one will carry it forward if negative is over $200.

The rakeback sites that offer daily cashouts (like rakereduction) are at far greater risk in carrying over negative balnces than the monthly cashout sites. It would make no sense for daily cashout sites to carry over negative balances given the associated risks.

William, I think your concerns should be taken up with Fulltilt and not the rakeback sites. They do not get paid these amounts and I don't think they should have to absorb something they don't receive. I also think it was irresponsible and unfair to isolate one affiliate (especially given their daily cashout program and the accompanying difficulties associated with carrying over neg balances) as it is very common for rakeback affiliates to carry over negative balances.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Wasn't PokerNow a Party Poker rakeback skin? That would probably explain it.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Wait, what? Sometimes businesses will do this, but it is certainly not a given. How happy would you be if an affiliate wanted to lower your RB?

From what I recall, they have no problem changing RB% when sites merge or change their RB policy. I have absolutely no problem with that, I do not expect an affiliate to lose money on me or anybody else.


If the 35% mentionned is a fact, then my request is, of course, unfair. I just wonder how the affiliates of the many posters that keep saying that their negative balance is not carried over manage under those conditions. I admit though that there is always the possibility that posters in these forums are lying about their affiliates practice (wouldn't that be a surprise!!!).

There is also the fact that I am being charged $20 in Visa transaction fees for a $600 deposit. I am probably wrong about this, but shouldn't I be paying for 27% of the fees? Hard to believe that Visa charges FT over 12% when it only charges me 3% if I make a cash withdrawal abroad.

Finally, I am not at all unsatisfied with the way RR operates, I just want to make sure that I am paying what I should and that I am receiving what I can expect.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Just wanted to poke my nose in here and say I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] rakereduction.

I love the daily cashouts and the weekly MGR contest. Even though the weekly MGR doesn't pay out a whole lot, I love seeing myself on the leaderboard every week. It is the motivation I need to put some hands in even at times when I don't really want to.

BTW, when are these freerolls coming? Can't we have it at one of the bigger pokerrooms like pokerstars or fulltilt where everyone has an account instead of Cake poker?

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Full Tilt Poker Current Month Totals:
Money Into Rake: $ 1000.00
Rakeback Percent: 27.00 %
Bonus Deduction $ -30.00
Guaranteed Tournament Deduction $ -10.00
Payment Processor Fees $ -20.00
Points Used Deduction $ -40.00
Money Made Current Month: $ 270.00

Above is an example of how it works as posted on rakereduction:

The total MGR is $1100 less fees etc. charged
by Fulltilt of 100 for net MGR of 1000 and rakeback of 270.
You will note that the rakeback is being reduced by 27% of the fees not 100%. In this case the reduction to rakeback is
$27 (27% x fees etc..)

Rakereduction shows all fees etc. charged as a courtesy to its players. It should be noted that the above is how it works for all rakeback affiliate sites whether they show the fees etc. or not. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Can you clarify if the $20 in payment processor fees I am paying for a $600 deposit is also 27% of the actual fee FT is being charged by Visa?

Thx

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

You should contact Fulltilt about the fees they are charging you. I can tell you this .... your rakeback is only being reduced by 27% of whatever Fulltilt charges you for fees.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

That is correct, any deduction you see in your Full Tilt section on rakeupdate.com, only 27% of that deduction is what you lose in rakeback - the deduction is against your rake, not against your rakeback.
Going to have to overhaul it some, far too much confusion on the subject of how much rakeback is lost.

Easiest way to explain it is, say you have a deduction(of any kind) in the amount of $100 only 27% of that is your lost rakeback($27).
How much you are charged for a deposit has to do with your method of choice, the cost associated is nothing we have any control over.

Also as its been pointed out by numerous other individuals here, staff costs money if we didn't do cashout anytime we could cut costs by firing our full time cashier, as the poker sites would make these payouts for us once a month.
I wont bore anyone with further details on operating costs, but there are quite a few more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rather than putting money into freerolls, our focus has been on staff wages, our own contests, the prize pool for these contests when we implemented them was far smaller than it is today, when we could we increased them.
You did however point out these are made because they benefit us and this is the only reason that they exist.
I wont deny that they are beneficial to us but wouldn't a freeroll,in which you may only enter if you have earned a set amount of points be the same principal - an incentive to play more.


I would like to apologize to anyone who feels cheated by our continued announcement about our own freeroll, when we first brought this up it was nearly complete, things appeared to be set in stone and just a month or so away.
Obviously this was not the case, we have not scrapped this idea, it is still very much going to happen, just taking far far longer than expected.

Hope that sheds some more light on things for you Will.

Regards,

RakeReduction

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Here is a list of my complaints about RR/RU:











........................
/End of list.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Now that I have some time to think about it, I don't like the idea of freerolls. Are they going to be tiered levels?
I would really hate to be in a freeroll with 20K members for $100, ala pokerstars freerolls for vips. Big waste of time.

I'd much rather the money be spent on more promotions, MGR contests, better support etc that would help the affiliate and players.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

I agree with you 4thstreetpete in one aspect. Alot of the hardcore professional players could care less about the freerolls, and likley won't play them. I don't see 20k members playing a weekly freeroll, I would guess tops would be 1-2k at a time, as you still have to qualify to play (have played someplace during the week).

With that said, we think the prize pool can be anywhere from 3-6k per week, worth your while.

We have also taken steps to increase the MGR & Referral contests from 15 places to 25 places paid and 10 to 15. I hope to roll that out tonight. We will also be upgrading the tiers on our referrals as well.

If you EVER have a suggestion or feature we dont have that you would like to see, please let me know.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]


With that said, we think the prize pool can be anywhere from 3-6k per week, worth your while.

We have also taken steps to increase the MGR & Referral contests from 15 places to 25 places paid and 10 to 15. I hope to roll that out tonight. We will also be upgrading the tiers on our referrals as well.

If you EVER have a suggestion or feature we dont have that you would like to see, please let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I do, I'd like to see that $3-6K put into the MGR weekly contest. It's such a sneaky concept but it actually worked for me. I can't believe seeing my name on the leaderboard daily has actually given me the motivation I need to put the amount of hands in. I was always looking to it. Great setup rakereduction. Just letting you know in a few months I will be blowing livb112 out of the water in the contest for good when I will be having way more time to play. I don't like that guy [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

We were trying to decide if we wanted to increase the prize pool, or increase the # of payouts. We opted to increase the payouts slightly but increase the # of people that get paid from 15 to 25. Hopefully implemented soon [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Actually I have one major gripe with rakereduction.

On rakeupdate's login page there is a spot where you have to manually type in the security code every time you try to log in. Now I understand why you need it for security reasons. What I don't understand though is why does my online banking site don't require me to type in this security code in every time but a rakeback site do? Can't your web developers come up with a better way. If we can change our passwords to what we like I can't see how hackers can still hack in.

I'm serious, it's a pain in the ass if you log into rakeupdate everyday and have to manually type in all the security codes everytime.

By my calculation let's say it takes about 10 secs to type it in.

so 10secs X 365 days a year = 3650 secs = 60.83 mins a year

so this is approximately 1 hr a year wasted punching in these codes.

Now let's say I live for another aprox 65 yrs

65 years x 1 hr = 65hrs!!!!!!! of my life wasted on typing in stupid codes. That's almost 3 full days of my life wasted. That's outrageous. I'd much rather spent that time playing poker or laying out in the sun. Imagine how much more MGR rakereduction would make if every member had contributed another 65hrs of poker time.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Did you tick the "remember me" box at the bottom of sign in page? That should prevent this.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you tick the "remember me" box at the bottom of sign in page? That should prevent this.

[/ QUOTE ]

The remember me button doesn't remember me. I tried it and even after I log out and try it again it doesn't work. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Could it be your password saving default on your computer?

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could it be your password saving default on your computer?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, my autocomplete works fine on all my other websites except rakeupdate. It has to do with rakeupdate itself.
I'm curious why it works for you.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

Maybe should send them a ticket(message) on site. Their support is always helpful.

Re: RakeReduction, why are you so cheap?
 

good idea.

end rant.