An Amazing Life
 

For some reason I was reflecting on the movie Gandhi and thinking how Gandhi seemed to be an admirer of Christ...then I thought of Martin Luther King Jr. and he was a Baptist minister and also a follower of Christ...Seems that Jesus Christ is the father of non-violent civil resistance...And therefore had an influence on India's independence and on the U.S. civil rights movement...

Re: An Amazing Life
 

Let me be the first one to get in the obvious retort. Most Protestants and some Catholics think that those who believed what Ghandi proclaimed to believe will go to hell.(I said it that way rather than the more direct "believe Ghandi went to hell" to avoid the inevitable "no man knows who is saved etc etc)

Re: An Amazing Life
 

Well, I don't think anybody is disputing that sometimes religious people can do good things, and sometimes they will probably even do those things because they are religious.

Ofcourse it all depends on how you define 'good', but now I'm just using it arbitrarily as some broad defintion I believe most people could atleast agree somewhat on (being just, believing in principles of equality, not hurting people physically/emotionally, furthering those principles etc).

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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Let me be the first one to get in the obvious retort. Most Protestants and some Catholics think that those who believed what Ghandi proclaimed to believe will go to hell.(

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You are guessing again.

PairTheBoard

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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Let me be the first one to get in the obvious retort. Most Protestants and some Catholics think that those who believed what Ghandi proclaimed to believe will go to hell.(

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You are guessing again.

PairTheBoard

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Maybe so. In fact I will go as far as to say that the statement is probably wrong. How bout if I changed it those who strictly follow the Potestant line?

Re: An Amazing Life
 

For some reason I was reflecting on the movie Forrest Gump and thinking how Forrest Gump seemed to be an admirer of Christ...Seems that Jesus Christ is the father of shrimp boat captaining, meeting presidents, and running across the country in a quest to understand why Jenny left...

Re: An Amazing Life
 

Gandhi may have been an admirer of JC, but he derived his nonviolence from Jainism, and subsequently MLK from him. It's pretty disingenuous to attribute their nonviolence to JC.

Re: An Amazing Life
 

No seriously Sephus I put in Gandhi and Christ in my search engine and came up with this censored website article...Seems Gandhi was very taken with the Sermon on the Mount and the turn the other cheek philosophy of Christ and also by Christ's words on the cross...He believed Christ was extraordinary but never accepted him as his Savior...Still it seems the Prince of Peace is present today in the passive resistance movement...a divine thread???

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Let me be the first one to get in the obvious retort. Most Protestants and some Catholics think that those who believed what Ghandi proclaimed to believe will go to hell.(

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You are guessing again.

PairTheBoard

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Maybe so. In fact I will go as far as to say that the statement is probably wrong. How bout if I changed it those who strictly follow the Potestant line?

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The "Protestant line"? Maybe you should try psychically communicating exactly what it is you mean to say. Then you could bypass the nuisance of having to use words altogether.

PairTheBoard

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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And therefore had an influence on India's independence and on the U.S. civil rights movement...

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You're right. It was pretty well 100% christians under the hoods.

luckyme

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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And therefore had an influence on India's independence and on the U.S. civil rights movement...

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You're right. It was pretty well 100% christians under the hoods.

luckyme

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In Rhodesia and S. Africa they were known as the "Dutch Reformed Church". No indication from alleged deities as to problematic deviations from revealed truth. Fervent proclamations from the faithful regarding love and 'spect of JC.

Re: An Amazing Life
 

Well Gandhi was a civil rights leader in South Africa and influenced Nelson Mandela...so I guess you could say Christ influenced South Africa also by way of his influence on Gandhi...

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No seriously Sephus I put in Gandhi and Christ in my search engine and came up with this censored website article...

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lol. censored by whom? link to the article plz.


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Seems Gandhi was very taken with the Sermon on the Mount and the turn the other cheek philosophy of Christ

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No doubt, it was a good sermon and a great message. Seriously.


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Still it seems the Prince of Peace is present today in the passive resistance movement...a divine thread???

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I think we should give the a large share of credit to Eirene/Pax, the goddess of peace, no doubt she was a huge inspiration to both Jesus and his followers.

Re: An Amazing Life
 

Here it is tpir:

The following article by a notorious and shameless 'Ecumenist' is a condensation of Gandhi's perverted version of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Gandhi, the disciple of Tolstoy and Romain Rolland, needless to add, was a great dissembler and seducer, a mix of Voltaire and Rasputin, and a progressively higher evolution from them. The passage, 'Even the Devil knows to quote Scriptures' is made real here. The original title of this editorial was 'Gandhi on Christ.' I have changed it to reflect the true position.


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Gandhi vs. Christ
Editorial by Fr. Benny Aguiar, in the Examiner, the official organ of the 'Mumbai' diocese of the New Church, 26th September 1992
What did Jesus mean to Gandhi? Did he have any influence on Gandhi's life and teaching? What according to Gandhi was the essence of Christ's message? Was Gandhi a secret Christian? What is the challenge that Gandhi presents to Christians and Christianity today?

Answers to these questions may be found in a recent book, 'Gandhi and Christianity' edited by Robert Ellsberg and published by Orbis Books, Maryknoll, New York 10545. This book is an anthology of the speeches and writings of Gandhi on the subject as well as responses to Gandhi's challenge by various Christian scholars. It should be a valuable reference book on the ongoing dialogue between Christians and representatives of other religions.

Early in his life, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi had been reading the Bible to keep a promise he had made to a friend. He found the Old Testament extremely difficult going. He disliked the Book of Numbers. But the New Testament produced a different impression, especially the Sermon on the Mount which went straight to his heart. The verses about not resisting evil but offering the other cheek and giving the cloak to one who asked for one's coat delighted him beyond measure. They reminded him about something he had learned in his childhood about returning with gladness good for evil done.

"I did once seriously think of embracing the Christian faith," Gandhi told Millie Polak, the wife of one of his earliest disciples. "The gentle figure of Christ, so patient, so kind, so loving, so full of forgiveness that he taught his followers not to retailate when abused or struck, but to turn the other cheek, I thought it was a beautiful example of the perfect man..."

However, on another occasion, he said he could accept Jesus "as a martyr, an embodiment of sacrifice, and a divine teacher, but not as the most perfect man ever born. His death on the Cross was a great example to the world, but that there was anything like a mysterious or miraculous virtue in it, my heart could not accept."

"The message of Jesus as I understand it," said Gandhi, "is contained in the Sermon on the Mount unadulterated and taken as a whole... If then I had to face only the Sermon on the Mount and my own interpretation of it, I should not hesitate to say, 'Oh, yes, I am a Christian.' But negatively I can tell you that in my humble opinion, what passes as Christianity is a negation of the Sermon on the Mount... I am speaking of the Christian belief, of Christianity as it is understood in the west."

Gandhi could speak beautifully about the message and personality of Jesus. Talking about the Gospel passage of the rich young man, he said, "St. Mark has vividly described the scene. Jesus is in his solemn mood. He is earnest. He talks about eternity. He knows the world about him. He is himself the greatest economist of his time. He succeeded in sermonising time and space - He transcends them. It is to him at the best that one comes running, kneels down and asks, "Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said unto him, "One thing thou lackest. Go thy way, sell what thou hast and give it to the poor, and thou shall have treasure in heaven - come, take up the cross and follow me." Here you have an eternal rule of life stated in the noblest words the English language is capable of producing." Gandhi went on to say that he could quote even stronger passages from the Hindu scriptures and the lesson he wanted to draw was that if we could clean our houses, palaces and temples of the attributes of wealth and show in them the attributes of morality we could fight all hostile forces without military strength. Let us seek first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, he said, and the irrevocable promise is that everything will be added upon us. "These are real economics. May you and I treasure them and enforce them in our daily life."

Poverty, suffering, the Crosss, non-violence, morality - all these were part of the Kingdom of God. But for Gandhi what struck him most in the Sermon on the Mount was Christ's teaching on non-retaliation, or non-resistance to evil. "Of all the things I have read what remained with me forever was that Jesus came almost to give a new law - not an eye for an eye but to receive two blows when only one was given, and to go two miles when they were asked to go one. I came to see that the Sermon on the Mount was the whole of Christianity for him who wanted to live a Christian life. It is that sermon that has endeared Jesus to me."

"Jesus occupies in my heart," said Gandhi, "the place of one of the greatest teachers who have had a considerable influence on my life. I shall say to the Hindus that your life will be incomplete unless you reverentially study the teachings of Jesus... Make this world the kingdom of God and his righteousness and everything will be added unto you. I tell you that if you will understand, appreciate, and act up to the spirit of this passage, you won't need to know what place Jesus or any other teacher occupies in your heart."

For Gandhi, Jesus was the prince of Satyagrahists1. "The example of Jesus suffering is a factor in the composition of my un-dying faith in non-violence. What then does Jesus mean to me? To me, He was one of the greatest teachers humanity has ever had." For Gandhi, to say that Jesus was the only begotten son of God was to say that "in Jesus' own life was the key of his nearness to God, that he expressed as no other could, the spirit and will of God... I do believe that something of the spirit that Jesus exemplified in the highest measure, in its most profound human sense exist... If I did not believe it, I should be a sceptic, and to be a sceptic is to live a life that is empty and lacking moral content. Or, what is the same thing, to condemn the human race to a negative end."

Gandhi believed that in every man there was an impulse for good and a compassion that is the spark of divinity that will one day burst into the full flower that is the hope of all mankind. An example of this flowering, he said, may be found in the figure and in the life of Jesus. "I refuse to believe that there not exists or has ever existed a person that has not made use of his example to lessen his sins, even though he may have done so without realising it. The lives of all have, in some greater or lesser degree, been changed by His presence, His actions and the words spoken by His divine voice... I believe that he belongs not solely to Christianity, but to the entire world; to all races and people, it matters litle under what flag, name or doctrine they may work, profess a faith or worship a God inherited from their ancestors."

For Gandhi Jesus was the true satyagrahist who passed the test of non-violence even if he seemed to be otherwise a failure. "The virtues of mercy, non-violence, love and truth in any man can be truly tested when they are pitted against ruthlessness, violence, hate and untruth... This is the true test of Ahimsa2... He who when being killed bears no anger against his murderer and even asks God ot forgive him is truly non-violent. History relates this of Jesus Christ. With his dying breath on the Cross, he is reported to have said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what to do."

According to the theory of Satyagraha, said Gandhi, an adequate appeal to the heart never fails. "Seeming failure is not of the law of Satyagraha but of incompetence of the Satyagrahist by whatever cause induced. The name of Jesus at once comes to the lips. It is an instance of brillant failure. And he has been acclaimed in the west as the prince of passive resisters. I showed years ago in South Africa that the adjective 'passive' was a misnomer, at least as applied to Jesus. He was the most active resister known perhaps to history. His was non-violence par excellence."

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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Well Gandhi was a civil rights leader in South Africa and influenced Nelson Mandela...so I guess you could say Christ influenced South Africa also by way of his influence on Gandhi...

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The guy who made my cheeseburger tonight was a big fan of Gandhi too.

Hey Jesus, I said extra mustard.

Re: An Amazing Life
 

Did you get that at geo cities? Who censored them?

Also, you left off the comments at the bottom. lol @ the C.S.Lewis quotes. That anyone falls for the 'lord, liar or lunatic' "argument" is an utter embarrassment.

Re: An Amazing Life
 

If I admire Han Solo does that mean he gets credit for everything I accomplish in my life?

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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Let me be the first one to get in the obvious retort. Most Protestants and some Catholics think that those who believed what Ghandi proclaimed to believe will go to hell.(

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You are guessing again.

PairTheBoard

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He may be guessing, but I think he's right on this point.

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If I admire Han Solo does that mean he gets credit for everything I accomplish in my life?

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I'm making all my patients say thank you to MacGuyver whenever I treat them.

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apparently 2p2 censors geo-cities, which i assume is what you meant. never knew that. question rescinded.

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JC wasn't a bad man, if the tales about his existence are accurate. He didn't start peaceful resistance. Yes, JC was ahead of his time moral wise, and?

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For some reason I was reflecting on the movie Gandhi and thinking how Gandhi seemed to be an admirer of Christ...then I thought of Martin Luther King Jr. and he was a Baptist minister and also a follower of Christ...Seems that Jesus Christ is the father of non-violent civil resistance...And therefore had an influence on India's independence and on the U.S. civil rights movement...

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Are you talking about Jesus Christ the fictional character?

Re: An Amazing Life
 

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 2+2 forums isn't a place where you can discuss much of anything for all the sarcastic pot shots being taken from the safety afforded by a computer screen...

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 2+2 forums isn't a place where you can discuss much of anything for all the sarcastic pot shots being taken from the safety afforded by a computer screen...

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Welcome to the club. That's why I don't post much in this forum. It's usually a hopeless cause.

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I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 2+2 forums isn't a place where you can discuss much of anything for all the sarcastic pot shots being taken from the safety afforded by a computer screen...

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Yep. 2+2 isn't the place to come for a group hug, thankfully.
Once you've soaked your skin in brine for a while, a glance over the bulk of them, such as the ones in this column, are direct counterarguments to the claims made in the OP.
Rebut them, with a little sneer if you like, and they don't seem as bad anymore.

luckyme

Re: An Amazing Life
 

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I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 2+2 forums isn't a place where you can discuss much of anything for all the sarcastic pot shots being taken from the safety afforded by a computer screen...

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Welcome to the club. That's why I don't post much in this forum. It's usually a hopeless cause.

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While the "sarcastic potshots" are definitely meant to be goofy, they highlight a point which the two of you seem incapable of grasping. The 'Han Solo' and 'cheeseburger' comments, for example, are using the exact same reasoning that you are. So, while Jesus was a nice guy, your argument is severely flawed, sorry. If you still don't get this I would recommend you read a book about critical thinking. Seriously. I can recommend a few if you like.

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And therefore had an influence on India's independence and on the U.S. civil rights movement...

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Wait wait wait a minute. Are you telling me, that JC has had a lot of influence on today's society? Get out of here. Yoo crayzee.

He's obviously the most second influential fictional character of all time. God (or should I say "The God's?) is (are?) number 1.

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I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 2+2 forums isn't a place where you can discuss much of anything for all the sarcastic pot shots being taken from the safety afforded by a computer screen...

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Welcome to the club. That's why I don't post much in this forum. It's usually a hopeless cause.

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While the "sarcastic potshots" are definitely meant to be goofy, they highlight a point which the two of you seem incapable of grasping. The 'Han Solo' and 'cheeseburger' comments, for example, are using the exact same reasoning that you are. So, while Jesus was a nice guy, your argument is severely flawed, sorry. If you still don't get this I would recommend you read a book about critical thinking. Seriously. I can recommend a few if you like.

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I could recommend you a good book too!!!

Oh, wait, lemme guess. You read the Bible allll the time but obviously don't take it to heart. But yet, by your own admission, you are the one who says that it wouldn't take much for you to become a born again believer. You say all of this while telling Christians that we're delusional, crazy, nut jobs, etc & offer to show us the light by recommending anti-christian books to read. How ironic.

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To ZeeJustin:

An excerpt from Wikipedia on Jesus

"Biblical scholars and classical historians generally accept the historical existence of Jesus, with claims against existence regarded as "effectively refuted."

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To ZeeJustin:

An excerpt from Wikipedia on Jesus

"Biblical scholars and classical historians generally accept the historical existence of Jesus, with claims against existence regarded as "effectively refuted."

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That settles it!

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To ZeeJustin:

An excerpt from Wikipedia on Jesus

"Biblical scholars and classical historians generally accept the historical existence of Jesus, with claims against existence regarded as "effectively refuted."

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That settles it!

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It's not a meaningful quote anyway, but typical misuse.
It's like confusing whether there was an actual Wild Bill Hickok and the one of legend.

Some biblical scholars believe that 'jesus of the bible' existed. the one that did strange things to fish and trivialized gravity. THAT is the jesus that influenced some people, the mythological jesus. He would have influenced them whether he existed or not.
No non-christian scholars believe that 'jesus of the bible' existed ... Or Else They Would Be Christians.
The possible 'poor slob jesus', hut builder, that may have existed never influenced anyone.

luckyme

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Tacitus a Roman historian who lived at the time of Christ was no Christian...yet he mentions him in his histories...So he most definitely lived...

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Tacitus a Roman historian who lived at the time of Christ was no Christian...yet he mentions him in his histories...So he most definitely lived...

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are you reading every fifth word?

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No non-christian scholars believe that 'jesus of the bible' existed ... Or Else They Would Be Christians.
The possible 'poor slob jesus', hut builder, that may have existed never influenced anyone.

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I believe he was a real and highly influential person (not a christian).

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Not sure what your point is Sephus? Another potshot perhaps? Surely you don't discount objective scholars that are actually closest to the source, closest to the object being discussed in favor of a lot of modern day scholarly conjectures?

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Christians are not evil foal...They were the first to bring organized charity to the world...

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/cooray/btof/chap242.htm

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Not sure what your point is Sephus? Another potshot perhaps? Surely you don't discount objective scholars that are actually closest to the source, closest to the object being discussed in favor of a lot of modern day scholarly conjectures?

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luckyme makes a post where his whole point is basically "when you tell me X historian (or scholar) says jesus existed, i don't know that the historian means the same thing by "jesus" that you do."

and your respose to that is

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Tacitus a Roman historian who lived at the time of Christ was no Christian...yet he mentions him in his histories...So he most definitely lived...

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it's like you're pretending that luckyme made an entirely different post than the one he wrote.

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Quite honestly Sephus...I may have misinterpreted something said...Some of the responses on here are so curt, cryptic and poorly phrased I don't always get your full meaning...

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Oh, wait, lemme guess. You read the Bible allll the time but obviously don't take it to heart.

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I actually just got done reading Matthew because of something my friends and I were talking about at lunch. Not sure what you mean by "take it to heart" or what your point is.


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But yet, by your own admission, you are the one who says that it wouldn't take much for you to become a born again believer.

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Yes, I said this, and?


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You say all of this while telling Christians that we're delusional, crazy, nut jobs, etc & offer to show us the light by recommending anti-christian books to read.

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I think that some of the people in these threads are crazy nutjobs, but I never made this assertion about Christians specifically. Jesus told his followers they should expect to be mocked for their beliefs and to ignore non-believers, stop being so emo about it.

How is a book about critical thinking anti-Christian? It doesn't profess any hate towards Jesus or the Bible. Would a coloring book about animals be considered anti-Christian too?

Also, I am not trying to "show you the light," just pointing out that when you defend your belief system with the worst logic and arguments imaginable it drives people away who would normally be open-minded to your message.


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How ironic.

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Add irony to the list of things you don't understand.

Was there a point in all of this? You are still ignoring the point I and others have made. i.e. that the MacGyver jokes are rooted in the same bad rationale that the OP is.

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No non-christian scholars believe that 'jesus of the bible' existed ... Or Else They Would Be Christians.
The possible 'poor slob jesus', hut builder, that may have existed never influenced anyone.

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I believe he was a real and highly influential person (not a christian).

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Count me in. That's 2. (I am not Christian.)