The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Let me begin by saying I'm a huge Notre Dame fan. I go to games and the ones I don't go to I watch every play of on TV. I knew going in to this year that things were going to be tough. However, I didn't imagine things would be this bad. The following are my thoughts on where things stand and where things are going.

Offense:
3 returning starters- They lost a ton of talent... the best QB in college football, two very good receivers, a very solid college running back, and three dependable lineman. That's a lot for any team to get past. Of those lost starters, the decision of Darrius Walker to go pro was a terrible one. Then again, maybe he saw something many of us didn't. So that's what they lost. How about what they have?

Offensive line: The lone returning starters are John Sullivan (a 5th year senior center that is solid) and Sam Young (a monster left tackle that started as a true freshman last year). The rest of the offensive line is horrible and consists of 2 juniors and 1 sophomore. As a unit the offensive line is disgustingly horrid. Notre Dame can't run or pass protect. This, without doubt, is the main reason for their offensive woes. With every guy on the line 6'4" or bigger and all but one weighing in at over 300 lbs the fact that they can't block anyone is a tragedy. All but Sullivan will be back next year so one can only hope they will learn how to block at some point in time.

Receivers: The possible bright spot is all-american candidate John Carlson (a very good college tight end that will play on Sundays next year). The remaining receivers are undersized (both starters are 5'10" on a tall day), and under-talented. Their ability to get open, on rare occasions when time to throw has been provided, has been inept at best. Outside of Carlson, all are underclassman and could be back next year.

Running backs: Who knows? There is youth in fullback Schwapp and halfbacks Aldridge and Allen. But just how talented they are we won't know until the offensive line provides some blocking.

Quarterback: Clausen will be fine. Chances are good that he'll be beat up this year, but again until the offensive line gives him time and the receivers can get open he won't have much of a chance to showcase his #1 high school prospect potential. This year he'll be on the run and will go through the typical struggles of a starting true freshman QB. The future, in this case, is very bright for Clausen and the Notre Dame offense. The departure of Demetrius Jones (week 1 starter) will only be a factor if Clausen and Sharpley are injured. Jones was a WR in the making anyway. Good, quick feet but couldn't throw a football to save his life (see: Carlyle Holiday).

Offensive side note: There are only 4 seniors (and 7 juniors) on the entire offensive depth chart for Notre Dame. Look for ND to spend this season going through growing pains and bust out in a year or two.


Defense: They can't tackle. That will be a problem if they can't get it fixed. Someone must have told them that diving at ankles is the correct way to tackle. Last time I checked it was not. They are undersized and lack talent. They are more experienced than the offense with 9 seniors on the depth chart (7 starters) but with Notre Dame's achilles heel being it's defense the past couple years having these guys back doesn't appear to be such a great thing. Top 10 CB prospect Gary Gray was injured and will miss this season and that certainly doesn't help the secondary. Look for DE Tervor Laws and LB Maurice Crum Jr. to be the only bright spots in the ND defense this year. Laws will surely be playing on Sundays next year but more likely as a DT. With 16 freshman and sophomores on the depth chart the future could be brighter but their lack of size and speed will continue to be a factor.

Special Teams: Zbikowski will have to try to carry the load returning punts. That is if the defense can tackle anyone. We've all seen his ability as a punt returner and hopefully can at least get ND's offense in decent field position. Then when they turn it over the opposing offense will have to work for it or when they go 3 and out the standard of dismal place kicking set in years past may have a 20% chance of putting 3 on the score board. Punter Geoff Price is excellent, but he's a punter so who cares? I'd rather not have to see him on the field and watch the offense score touchdowns.

Coaching: Oh Charlie! I love ya, but what are you doing? Three different QBs playing a significant amount of time and three different offenses in three weeks. I can only hope you're trying to find a shoe that fits, but isn't that what all the time leading up to week 1 is for? He turned Brady Quinn and Jeff Samardzija into all-americans, but isn't anyone next? At some point in time coaching needs to take the blame. An offensive line that can't block and a defense that can't tackle looks like poor coaching to me. Get it together man. For those of you who think Weis' seat is hot... forget about it. He'll be at ND for years to come. I have complete faith he'll turn it around.

Overall prognosis: ND stinks. They have played a tough schedule with more to come. However, they do have Air Force, Navy and Duke as winnable games and UCLA, Stanford, and Boston College as possible wins if they can get it going by then. I look for 4 wins this year and a bright future for this team. This is a rebuilding year. How well Charlie can recruit and reload will be a big factor in future success and the way things are going right now recruiting this year may not be so easy. However, they do have verbal commitments from from some top players already which include some much needed speed on defense.

Go Irish! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...vatars/nnx.gif

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

The State of ND football = West Virgina.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Weis will probably be around, that is true. Sans recruiting (helped no doubt by the lengthy fellatio by the national media that is thankfully ending now), how are Charlie and Ty different? I realize strong recruiting classes vs. weak classes really color the future, but when you realize that he's taken a team that should be mediocre/weak and instead is among the worst in DIA. They may well have the worst offense in the past...decade?...in major college football. I mean, we (Michigan) shut them down...and we are NOT good.

I genuinely want to know how this season can be explained away to leave Weis' reputation in tact.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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I genuinely want to know how this season can be explained away to leave Weis' reputation in tact.

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Obviously ND fans will hand-wave away this season and blame "Ty's recruits".

ND fan nation logic:

- Season goes well with Ty's recruits? Make a BCS bowl with Ty's recruits, guys like Quinn, Samardzijxjipja, McKnight, Stovall, Carlson, Fasano, Walker? --> all credit goes to Charlie's coaching acumen.
- Season going terribly? Have the 119th ranked offense in the nation, despite the fact your current coach is an ostensible offensive "genius"? --> all blame on Ty and his terrible recruiting classes ranked in the 30s and 40s by national publications and ranking services. As someone in another thread noted, when you add together a couple of recruiting classes ranked in the 30s and 40s nationally and mix it together with one of the greatest offensive minds of all time, you somehow get the 119th ranked offense in the nation. Does this cause ND fans to bat an eye? Nope; this is rebuilding year, so once Ty's Guys are purged, Charlie can finally get down to winning national championships every year. Despite the fact he hasn't been there in three years, Ty is obviously at fault when Notre Dame players fail at basic football competency things like "snapping the football" and "blocking defenders".

It went the same way last season too. Before various big games ND was about to play, various posters here, on ND boards and blogs claimed in unison: "Charlie will have the troops ready to play! He'll have an NFL gameplan ready that college teams won't be able to defend." After getting blown out in said games, that narrative was unsurprisingly: "Ty's recruits let Charlie down." Charlie is one of those special coaches who will always have the troops ready to play... until they lose, in which case they were doomed from the start due to Ty's uncoachable recruits.

When you read this:

Ty Willingham Fact Sheet

...it's hilarious how many of these arguments for firing Willingham apply aptly to Weis. But in ND's fans minds, this is completely meaningless. Getting blown out 5 games in a row just means that "Returning to Glory" will have to wait a couple of more years. Weis will get the troops ready by 2011, no worries.

It's going to be comical watching ND fans strain for excuses once the last vestiges of Willingham's classes are gone, and Weis's signature accomplishments still only include a narrow loss to USC at home, beating a 7-5 Michigan team, and winning the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy numerous times.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

WTF? Do you really believe Quinn is better than Russell?

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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They lost a ton of talent... the best QB in college football

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I stopped reading there.

PS: I hope ND is consumed in a grease fire.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Not sure about the purpose of your post.

All the top teams lose players - to the pros, to injury, to graduation. USC and all the other top schools simply reload. USC lost 15 starters a few years ago and reloaded w/ Leinart, Bush, White, Steve Smith, Dale Jarrett, Lofa Tatupu, Mike Patterson, etc.

Weis should have used a brain cell and played his younger players more. Let's take an honest assessment - how many of Weis' recruits are significantly better than when they arrived in South Bend? Doesn't seem like many.

Here's a pretty intersting article that hits the nail on the head about Weis ... he took all the credit for ND's previous victories and he's been masterful about dodging critcism on all of the big-game losses.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/7243060

As an aside, love the fact that Jimmy Clausen was held back twice. Didn't start kindergarden until he was 6 then he repeated the sixth grade. Sounds like a winner.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

ND's biggest problem is a lack of consistentcy, program wide. Too many coaching changes the past 8 years for a major program. Recruting classes that fluctuate. Add all this inconsistency together with a really hard schedule, and what do people expect.

If ND wants to regain its past glory, they have to roll with Weis for a few years.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Yeah, I'm seeing no point to your post. You seem to defend them by saying, "well, all they're best players are gone", but then, you just say they suck.

BTW, LOVE the fact that you think they can beat Boston College/UCLA. Awesome.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Agree w/ the original point on the coaching. Weis is only one piece of the equation, but it doesn't look like the program is developing it's players. The guys look totally lost and undisciplined.

In watching USC, the coaching is apparent. The players are very disciplined. In last week's game against Nebraska, there were several runs/catches, where the DB/linebacker/safety allowed the runner to get a few extra yards, but they prevented the runner from hitting the sideline and possibly taking it to the house.

BTW, Weis didn't make Quinn a pro. The kid was a great recruit coming out of high school and was probably going to make the league under Willingham. Weis helped his development (for which he took 100% of the credit); Weis' influence/resume guaranteed this kid would get into the first round.
ND also had a lot of great recruits - imo, the biggest problem is that players aren't getting better once they get to campus.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

The reloading thing goes a bit too far, since by this time Carroll has had a chance to recruit and had all his players reach upperclass status. Weis has recruited very well, so in a couple years losing a bunch of players shouldn't mean instant devastation (if he keeps recruiting well).

It's not unexpected that they'd do bad, given Ty's late classes and the fact that all the highly ranked players are frosh or sophomore. They're basically playing with a MAC-level oline.

The problem is that they aren't performing anywhere near THAT well. Their MAC level O-line is playing like a DIII O-line. Instead of being mediocre or even somewhat bad, they're so atrocious they've taken the spotlight off of my Wolverines (thank God for that). Good coaches (and obviously great ones) can't spin straw into gold, but they sure don't ever have a team that looks like this in Year 3, either.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA

Cheer, cheer for old Notre Dame!
Can't score a touchdown!
Can't win a game!
Cash the checks from NBC
and marching winless to Navy!

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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It's not unexpected that they'd do bad, given Ty's late classes and the fact that all the highly ranked players are frosh or sophomore. They're basically playing with a MAC-level oline.

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If they are, that's 100% coaching, because the raw talent out of high school is something that MAC coaches have wet dreams about. I understand that with the turnover and youth on the team that we were almost assuredly going to take a few steps back, but I never expected a full fledged retreat, 5th year seniors repeatedly snapping the ball over the qbs head, our freshman all-american, all world recruit tackle to suck and regress horribly. I hope Weis can turn it around, and he definitely gets another year to turn things around, his recruiting and last two years have been too good to fire him after a single bad season, but he has completely blown this transition for whatever reason.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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I genuinely want to know how this season can be explained away to leave Weis' reputation in tact.

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Obviously ND fans will hand-wave away this season and blame "Ty's recruits".

ND fan nation logic:

- Season goes well with Ty's recruits? Make a BCS bowl with Ty's recruits, guys like Quinn, Samardzijxjipja, McKnight, Stovall, Carlson, Fasano, Walker? --> all credit goes to Charlie's coaching acumen.
- Season going terribly? Have the 119th ranked offense in the nation, despite the fact your current coach is an ostensible offensive "genius"? --> all blame on Ty and his terrible recruiting classes ranked in the 30s and 40s by national publications and ranking services. As someone in another thread noted, when you add together a couple of recruiting classes ranked in the 30s and 40s nationally and mix it together with one of the greatest offensive minds of all time, you somehow get the 119th ranked offense in the nation. Does this cause ND fans to bat an eye? Nope; this is rebuilding year, so once Ty's Guys are purged, Charlie can finally get down to winning national championships every year. Despite the fact he hasn't been there in three years, Ty is obviously at fault when Notre Dame players fail at basic football competency things like "snapping the football" and "blocking defenders".

It went the same way last season too. Before various big games ND was about to play, various posters here, on ND boards and blogs claimed in unison: "Charlie will have the troops ready to play! He'll have an NFL gameplan ready that college teams won't be able to defend." After getting blown out in said games, that narrative was unsurprisingly: "Ty's recruits let Charlie down." Charlie is one of those special coaches who will always have the troops ready to play... until they lose, in which case they were doomed from the start due to Ty's uncoachable recruits.

When you read this:

Ty Willingham Fact Sheet

...it's hilarious how many of these arguments for firing Willingham apply aptly to Weis. But in ND's fans minds, this is completely meaningless. Getting blown out 5 games in a row just means that "Returning to Glory" will have to wait a couple of more years. Weis will get the troops ready by 2011, no worries.

It's going to be comical watching ND fans strain for excuses once the last vestiges of Willingham's classes are gone, and Weis's signature accomplishments still only include a narrow loss to USC at home, beating a 7-5 Michigan team, and winning the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy numerous times.

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I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] DVault1

Dude, I take back every bad thing I ever said about you in Politics.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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WTF? Do you really believe Quinn is better than Russell?

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Yes.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

lololol

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/...he-white-flag/

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

The sad part is that people will not stop beating up on this team and there is nothing that I can say is worth while.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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WTF? Do you really believe Quinn is better than Russell?

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Absolutely.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

One of Charlie's top recruits (so far) for the upcoming season will be featured on ESPN 2 tonight in a high school match up. The bad news is that it's a QB and I'm pretty sure Clausen will be there for another 3 years. The QB playing on ESPN 2 tonight is Dayne Crist he may just be ND's next Zach Frazier.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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I hope Weis can turn it around, and he definitely gets another year to turn things around, his recruiting and last two years have been too good to fire him after a single bad season, but he has completely blown this transition for whatever reason.

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His huge multi-year contract has more to do with him sticking around then anything else I'm afraid.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

I'm just happy to have lived long enough to have heard a ND coach say, "Navy scares the heck out of me!"-- and really mean it.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

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Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

I'd also like to address the Weis vs Willingham issue. Charlie's recruits have been rated higher that Ty's. This is true. But I don't blame their horrible start to this season on the lack of talent Ty brought in. Charlie took over at a good time. A time when Ty's boys like Quinn, Samardzija, Stoval, Fasano. Carlson, McKnight, & Walker we're ready to bust out. I think some of what's holding them back now is that the players recruited by Weis are still young and inexperienced. The players recruited by Willingham are mostly gone.

This reminds me a lot of what happened to Nebraska. I think Notre Dame and Nebraska have many similarities in this situation. They are both teams with a tradition of running the football. When new coaches were brought in or came in to bring the program into the modern era of football there was a time of transition. You can't just take a team that is built to run the ball 45 plays a game and put in a spread offense. You need to get the personal in there to fit the system. (I predict the Big 10 is going to be hit very hard by this very soon if they haven't been already.) The other big problems for both schools is with recruiting. Not many high school kids want to spend winter in Nebraska or Indiana when they could be in Florida or Southern California. I see a lot of warm weather schools doing very well the past few years. Notre Dame has added difficulties in that it is a Catholic college. And both Nebraska and Notre Dame are big time programs that have not been so big time lately. It's much easier to recruit when you're a winning program. (see: USC)

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

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If you saw a 33-3 score, which team would you put with which recruiting classes?

2004-32
2005-40
2006-8
2007-8

2004-56
2005-62
2006-57
2007-18

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

[ QUOTE ]
So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

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Both members of ESPN's PTI say, "Yes!". Despite being 14 point underdogs at home quite a few "experts" have ND winning on Saturday vs Michigan St. Because I'm a Notre Dame nut I pick them to win every game. But I don't bet on it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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It's much easier to recruit when you're a winning program. (see: USC)


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sure, it's easier to be on top next year when you are on top this year. but USC was pretty meh VERY recently.

They went 37-35 from 1996 to 2001. then Pete Carroll took over.

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he other big problems for both schools is with recruiting. Not many high school kids want to spend winter in Nebraska or Indiana when they could be in Florida or Southern California. I see a lot of warm weather schools doing very well the past few years. Notre Dame has added difficulties in that it is a Catholic college.

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whatever difficulties ND has in being from Indiana/Catholis is more than balanced by having a very lucrative national TV deal. there is absolutely no excuse for this program to not be elite.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Recruiting class ratings carry some weight with me but not much. When even NFL scouts have trouble evaluating NCAA football players; I think evaluating high school talent can't be even close to an exact science. Some players pan out and others do not.

I remember when the big deal was that king of the world place kicker Scott Bentley committed to ND and the changed his mind and went to Florida State. He turned out to be a huge bust for FSU.

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It's much easier to recruit when you're on national television more than Leave It To Beaver and ridiculously overrated on an annual basis.

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Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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having a very lucrative national TV deal. there is absolutely no excuse for this program to not be elite.

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This is surely a HUGE + for ND. I don't want nor mean to be making excuses. These are just a couple of the weights ND has to carry when recruiting.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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It's much easier to recruit when you're on national television more than Leave It To Beaver and ridiculously overrated on an annual basis.

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You can't blame ND for being overrated.

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It's much easier to recruit when you're on national television more than Leave It To Beaver and ridiculously overrated on an annual basis.

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You can't blame ND for being overrated.

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No, but I could hate them for whining about recruiting disadvantages.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

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No, but I could hate them for whining about recruiting disadvantages.

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You don't have to like them. But I haven't heard anyone that officially represents ND (players, coaches, etc.) whining about it.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

Even subpar ND recruiting classes are far better than good classes from any Big10 schools other than the top 3 (OSU, PSU, Michigan), any Pac 10 schools other than USC, most of the SEC or any of the Big East.

Is there one of those conferences that this year's ND team would stand a chance in?

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

ND is to blame for being overrated. They promote themselves as an elite program, insist on special BCS rules/considerations, play under thier own television contract, and earn way more money than anyone else. Without question, they can be hardcore negotiators due to thier legacy importance. I don't fault them for getting as much money as possible, but the public will notice and react when the team is down.

Weis / Willingham issue - hmmm, Weis was a genius b/c he could win w/ a full team of Ty's guys. Wonder why he can't win on a team that is over 50% of his recruits w/ the remainder being Ty's? (Keep in mind, he's already won w/ TW's recruits.)

I also think CW is responsible for a lot of the backlash. He's tried to position himself to be loved by the ND Nation but unless there are wins, his rhetoric is meaningless. He was also very quick to take credit for earlier success, which was predicated on "progress" not "success". In Weis' tenure, ND loses when the play an elite team, have a 50/50 record when playing a decent team, and beat poor teams (the Acadamies, Purdue, et at)

Dwayne Crist will be a good qb, but he's only as good as the offense around him and coaching.
Crist will have to sit behind Jimmy C. ND should be targeting Matt Barkely, Mater Dei's qb. If that high school sounds familiar, it should - it's the alma mater of Heisman winners John Huarte (ND) and Matt Leinart (USC). And yes... this high school has two heisman trophy winners whereas ucla only has one.

Re: The state of Notre Dame football.
 

It isn't the cold winters that scare top recruits away from Notre Dame. It's the way they screwed Ty Willingham and, to a lesser extent, Demetrius Jones. The fact of the matter is that Notre Dame sent a huge message that they don't respect the Black Man. That's a tough stigma to overcome.

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No, but I could hate them for whining about recruiting disadvantages.

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You don't have to like them. But I haven't heard anyone that officially represents ND (players, coaches, etc.) whining about it.

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Cold weather, catholic, admissions, misdirection of recent coaches-- I'm not sure what I missed in the litany of excuses.

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Is there one of those conferences that this year's ND team would stand a chance in?

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Honestly, I think ND could struggle a bit playing Div. 2 schools this year.