Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

most 2+2ers are primarily online players with some live play. In my case, I learned to play live and play primarily live and only recently play online.

One aspect of my game that has been plaguing me online is something that I have no problem with in Live play. FOLDING. I am too trapable in online play. Particularly with TPTK and overpairs. I have been getting stacked at a high rate with them. Below is an example of a hand I overplayed TPTK and even though we know that my TPTK is no good, try to please give me a line you would realistically take. Just assume we want to maximize EV if we we arent beat, and also allow us to not be married to the hand.

Thanks

I apologize in advance for no hand converter it is blocked at work.

FullTiltPoker Game #3606881807: Table Evita (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:48:48 ET - 2007/09/19
Seat 1: zachucsb ($201)
Seat 2: 514mtl ($157.30)
Seat 3: ColmsUM ($250.95)
Seat 4: Tagalag ($416.60)
Seat 5: FundMyAudi ($279.95)
Seat 6: Berak ($80.95)
Tagalag posts the small blind of $1
FundMyAudi posts the big blind of $2
5 seconds left to act
514mtl is sitting out
Time has expired
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to zachucsb [Kc Ah]
Berak calls $2
514mtl has returned
zachucsb raises to $9
ColmsUM calls $9
Tagalag folds
FundMyAudi folds
Berak folds
*** FLOP *** [As 6s 7d]
zachucsb bets $15
ColmsUM has 15 seconds left to act
ColmsUM raises to $55
zachucsb has 15 seconds left to act
zachucsb raises to $175
ColmsUM raises to $241.95, and is all in
zachucsb calls $17, and is all in
ColmsUM shows [7h 6h]
zachucsb shows [Kc Ah]
Uncalled bet of $49.95 returned to ColmsUM
*** TURN *** [As 6s 7d] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [As 6s 7d 5h] [3c]
ColmsUM shows two pair, Sevens and Sixes
zachucsb shows a pair of Aces
ColmsUM wins the pot ($404) with two pair, Sevens and Sixes
zachucsb is sitting out

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

a) ssnl may fit better
b) what is your table image?
c) what is the villain like?

As played is often standard, but obv. not if one of you is nitty.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
a) ssnl may fit better
b) what is your table image?
c) what is the villain like?

As played is often standard, but obv. not if one of you is nitty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay sorry should have included more.. Sat down 10 min ago at table. I had seen villain 3bet twice, but never went to SD. I think he is LAG but not a maniac. I hadn't been involved too much, I think I made on button raise and folded to a turn bet after I cbet a flop I missed. Yes I agree its SSNL, but live I primarily play 5/5, and 5/10NL. Since I have just began playing online I am starting low and I would like to get a perspective from people in MSNL.

Part of what I am getting at is: In live play many players are so passive that when I am getting rasied like this I can correctly fold hands like this. Online I am going to showdown with them. Perhaps, I am just overly concerned because SC's have been making 2pr and PP have been getting sets more than they ought to.

So, lets say my image is slightly LAG to TAG and I am against an equivelant player. Should I go with it in spots like this? If so, I will just mark it down to variance and move on.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

bump once

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

Hmm, if he's 3 betting preflop then the most important thing to know is whether he plays a draw this way, because he isn't going to show up with a weak ace here. On a drawy board, OOP against an aggressive player this seems pretty standard.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

LOL @ Colms playing 1/2.

You should stack off to him here on this board everytime.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL @ Colms playing 1/2.

You should stack off to him here on this board everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is a MSNL reg?

Maybe I am just being results orientated and playing paranoid, since over the last 10k hands I am negative on JJ QQ KK and AKo. If this is standard against similar villain, I am okay with that just wanted to plug the leak if this was one.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
over the last 10k hands I am negative on JJ QQ KK and AKo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. Maybe this is a bad example hand. Perhaps you are misplaying in reraised pots?

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

I dont want to overlook any possibility but I dont think I am misplaying the 3bet pots. For the most part I am always 3betting pre with my premium hands above and putting it in on fairly safe boards, I have run into lots of 2pairs and sets from hands I dominated preflop.
in a 3bet pot I would only be more commited to TPTK or overpairs due to I have a large portion of my stack in (SPR).

Accordingly I think this is a good example because I dont fault myself for getting stacked with overpairs in 3bet pots, but with hands like these (raised pre and hit overpair or TPTK) perhaps I am making mistakes by going to showdown with it. Thoughts?

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

3-betting flop is fine versus non nits as is calling and checkraising a blank turn if he usually follows up on the turn after raising the flop.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

This hand is fine, and I'm basically never folding vs this guy since his range is weighted towards draws here. I'd often call the flop and lead a safe turn though. I think you should post more hands as well OP since this one probably isn't a great example.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, I am just overly concerned because SC's have been making 2pr and PP have been getting sets more than they ought to.


[/ QUOTE ]

thats because online poker is rigged.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, I am just overly concerned because SC's have been making 2pr and PP have been getting sets more than they ought to.


[/ QUOTE ]

thats because online poker is rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes I know, but my goal is to become so good I can overcome its riggedness

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is fine, and I'm basically never folding vs this guy since his range is weighted towards draws here. I'd often call the flop and lead a safe turn though. I think you should post more hands as well OP since this one probably isn't a great example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will take your suggestion and find a few non3bet and 3bet pots where I got stacked with TPTK or overpairs and post them. I would appreciate it if you can take a look and give your thoughts when I do. If these are just spots that are standard to go broke with, I have no problem with that. My goal is to see if I should be getting folding in these spots. As an aside for most of these hands I won't have much history on the villian. I dont have a large PT database yet, but for discussion we can assume I am against either a 32/22/X LAG and a 22/18/X TAG and give suggestions for each. I will find the hands and reply then.

Thanks.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

Okay here are some hands I have gotten allin with TPTK and Overpairs.

A few are definetly just variance/coolers like this first one that have affected my overall rates severely due to small sample size. Should I have folded in these at any place? Please respond inreagards to TAG villain LAG villain and passive fish villain.

Thanks.

Hand1:
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

Button ($233.10)
SB ($269.60)
[color=#C00000]Hero ($219.40)</font>
UTG ($174.05)
[color=#C00000]MP ($253.90)</font>
CO ($328.95)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]MP raises to $7</font>, [color=#666666]3 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $27</font>, MP calls $18.

Flop: ($53) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $40</font>, MP calls $40.

Turn: ($133) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $154.4 (All-In)</font>, MP calls $154.40.

River: ($0) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $441.80

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
Hero has Ks As (two pair, aces and kings).
MP doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $441.80. </font>

Hand2:
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

[color=#C00000]SB ($200)</font>
BB ($376.70)
[color=#C00000]Hero ($200)</font>
MP ($313.85)
[color=#C00000]Button ($204)</font>

Preflop: Hero is UTG with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/as.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ks.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]Button raises to $7</font>, BB calls $6, [color=#CC3333]Hero (poster) raises to $30</font>, [color=#CC3333]Button raises to $211 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $172 (All-In).

Flop: ($411) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qc.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qs.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: ($411) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2h.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($411) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/9h.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $411

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
Hero has As Ks (one pair, queens).
Button doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $411. Button wins $9. </font>

Hand3:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

[color=#C00000]Hero ($224.15)</font>
MP ($200)
[color=#C00000]CO ($66.15)</font>
Button ($227)
SB ($86.95)
BB ($95.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ad.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif.
[color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $7</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, CO calls $7, [color=#666666]3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($17) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/5s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/9d.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $12</font>, [color=#CC3333]CO raises to $24</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $101</font>, CO calls $35.15 (All-In).

Turn: ($135.30) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8h.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($135.30) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3d.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $135.30

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
Hero has Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
CO doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $177.15. </font>

Hand 4:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

CO ($136.50)
Button ($179)
[color=#C00000]SB ($193.85)</font>
BB ($320.70)
UTG ($200.15)
[color=#C00000]Hero ($277.45)</font>

Preflop: Hero is MP with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ks.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kh.gif.
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $10</font>, CO calls $8, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, SB calls $9, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($31) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/js.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/5s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qc.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $20</font>, CO folds, [color=#CC3333]SB raises to $40</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $173</font>, [color=#CC3333]SB raises to $223.85 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $30.85.

Turn: ($438.70) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($438.70) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3s.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $438.70

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
SB doesn't show.
Hero has Ks Kh (two pair, kings and queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $458.70. </font>

Hand5:
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

BB ($200)
[color=#C00000]UTG ($453.60)</font>
MP ($319.30)
CO ($242.25)
Button ($71)
[color=#C00000]Hero ($646.65)</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qs.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif.
[color=#CC3333]UTG raises to $7</font>, [color=#666666]3 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $24</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, UTG calls $16.

Flop: ($49) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/td.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ah.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qd.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $40</font>, UTG calls $40.

Turn: ($129) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8d.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $100</font>, [color=#CC3333]UTG raises to $200</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $683.65 (All-In)</font>, UTG calls $190.60 (All-In).

River: ($910.20) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kh.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $910.20

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
Hero has Qs Qh (three of a kind, queens).
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $1203.25. </font>

Hand6:
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

[color=#C00000]Hero ($200)</font>
UTG ($404.60)
MP ($329.70)
Button ($200)
[color=#C00000]SB ($226.15)</font>

Preflop: Hero is BB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif.
UTG calls $2, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, SB completes, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $10</font>, UTG calls $6, SB calls $6.

Flop: ($26) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2h.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $20</font>, UTG folds, SB calls $20.

Turn: ($66) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8c.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $50</font>, [color=#CC3333]SB raises to $198.15 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $122 (All-In).

River: ($410) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $410

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
Hero has Qd Qh (one pair, queens).
SB doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $410. SB wins $26.15. </font>

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

??? You won all of those hands. FWIW the KK on JQx board i would call the minraise and go from there usually, and the last QQ one i might fold to the turn check/raise (though depends on reads. The rest look good/standard

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

[ QUOTE ]
??? You won all of those hands. FWIW the KK on JQx board i would call the minraise and go from there usually, and the last QQ one i might fold to the turn check/raise (though depends on reads. The rest look good/standard

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry the hand conversion got messed up. No, I lost all those.

Re: Overplaying TPTK, Overpairs Live vs. Online
 

The first 3 are fine, the KK hand I just call the min raise, and the last 2 I usually find a fold