If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

How many more players would be online? Seriously?

Everytime I play at a casino, or at a live card room, anytime online poker is mentioned...everyone talks about how it is not legitimate because of some 2 outer or some such non-sense. They played once, and stopped.

They are naturally all bad players, and obviously not very good at life in general.

Do you think if Party/Stars(please) came out with a campaign, showing more in detail how legitimate their shuffling/dealing was that more donkeys would play online? I'm beginning to think so.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

More donkeys? Is that possible?

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I was vaguely thinking that Party floating would cut some of this stuff out, but I guess these people think that the stockmarket is corrupt to the core too.

I wonder if, when we review a chat complaint (at PS) and come across someone saying "typical riverstars", it'd be a good plan to pre-emptively send them a bad beat response? "We aren't rigged because xyz, do you want your entire RM hand history as proof?"

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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I was vaguely thinking that Party floating would cut some of this stuff out, but I guess these people think that the stockmarket is corrupt to the core too.

I wonder if, when we review a chat complaint (at PS) and come across someone saying "typical riverstars", it'd be a good plan to pre-emptively send them a bad beat response? "We aren't rigged because xyz, do you want your entire RM hand history as proof?"

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Haha. That might be kinda creepy thinking that support was "looking over your shoulder" even though you obviously weren't.

I'm not sure exactly how this could be done, I just know I wish I could play 60 hands per hour against those guys rather than 25... :-\

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I may be wrong about this and I'm too tired to check, but I believe paradisepoker has some seal of approval for independent third party shuffle checking or something prominently displayed on their main lobby. I don't think Stars or Party have it as well displayed and for that I say boo to you Party and Stars.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

It is not only the two random cards that need to be checked but the flop turns and rivers. If someone says this guy has k7 and another guy has ak and they pull cards like k72 out on the flop turn or river. Then random checking the first two cards mean absolutly nothing. This is what they checked not the whole process.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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More donkeys? Is that possible?

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Just imagine online games being as soft as B&M games. $100/hr multi-tabling 3/6 !!

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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Do you think if Party/Stars(please) came out with a campaign, showing more in detail how legitimate their shuffling/dealing was that more donkeys would play online? I'm beginning to think so.


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No. They are donkeys for a reason.

Logic, common sense, are not tools they are familiar with.

The reason they lose and refuse to play online is because it is rigged. You cannot convince them otherwise.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

The big reason donkeys think online is rigged is like the guy said, they lose.

But the thing with online play is your loss is in your face and undeniable.

You know you depsosited $100 on Party Poker, and 3 days later your account balance is .87 and it's painfully clear you lost $100.

Contrast this with a B&M cardroom.

Most donkeys buy in for some random amount (in cash) and cash out for some random amount (receive cash).

They might hit the craps table on their way out and then grab a burger on the way home, etc.

When he gets home and finds $20 left in his wallet it's very easy for his brain to say, "Well I broke about even playing poker, maybe lost a little at craps, bought that burger"

This is why all losing players are "about even", the sloppy nature of cash and how it's easy to lose track of where you spent what allows this fantasy.

Online it does not exist, since you have to jump through hoops to get the money to the site and it's clear once you lose it all.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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It is not only the two random cards that need to be checked but the flop turns and rivers. If someone says this guy has k7 and another guy has ak and they pull cards like k72 out on the flop turn or river. Then random checking the first two cards mean absolutly nothing. This is what they checked not the whole process.

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So basically what you're saying is that you're a moron?

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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How many more players would be online? Seriously?

Everytime I play at a casino, or at a live card room, anytime online poker is mentioned...everyone talks about how it is not legitimate because of some 2 outer or some such non-sense. They played once, and stopped.

They are naturally all bad players, and obviously not very good at life in general.

Do you think if Party/Stars(please) came out with a campaign, showing more in detail how legitimate their shuffling/dealing was that more donkeys would play online? I'm beginning to think so.

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None. I think the vast majority of losing players who tried a few hundred at PP or PS really know the reason they lost is that they are not good players. But what is easier on the ego, telling your friends and yourself that you lost because you suck or that you lost because online poker is rigged?

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I was at Caesars Indiana the other night in a 5/10 NL game and the talk was about a program that could see all of the players cards. This guy said it was being sold for 25k and that he had seen it in operation.

I and a couple others told him he was full of [censored] and if someone could do that, they surely wouldn't be dumb enough to sell it for $25k. He says he has sold hundreds, I asked how in the hell are people still beating the games then.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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How many more players would be online? Seriously?

Everytime I play at a casino, or at a live card room, anytime online poker is mentioned...everyone talks about how it is not legitimate because of some 2 outer or some such non-sense. They played once, and stopped.

They are naturally all bad players, and obviously not very good at life in general.

Do you think if Party/Stars(please) came out with a campaign, showing more in detail how legitimate their shuffling/dealing was that more donkeys would play online? I'm beginning to think so.

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this is actually a really good idea. you should PM Lee Jones and mention it. seriously.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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More donkeys? Is that possible?

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Just imagine online games being as soft as B&M games. $100/hr multi-tabling 3/6 !!

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I wish.

I think rakeback and reload bonuses and things like that really kill the action at the tables too. I see a lot of people with 12% VPIPs. Can that even be profitable? I can pull up a table and take a nap and still have a higher VPIP than 12-14%.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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More donkeys? Is that possible?

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Just imagine online games being as soft as B&M games. $100/hr multi-tabling 3/6 !!

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I wish.

I think rakeback and reload bonuses and things like that really kill the action at the tables too. I see a lot of people with 12% VPIPs. Can that even be profitable? I can pull up a table and take a nap and still have a higher VPIP than 12-14%.

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When I first started playing for a living back in Sep of 04, yes 13 VIP at 3/6 full was highly profitable.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I think a big difference between online and live for these players is that it's easier for them to convince themselves that they aren't losing live players. Online they see the account steadily decline and they know they are losing. Live they never really keep track. And there are a lot of long term losing players that fill cardrooms that believe they really win money.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I had one of the dealers at the Silver Star tell me about the same program but it is only about $500. One of his buddies bought it though and it's already having success. Basically you have to train it to see the pattern in the flops at Party by playing several hundreds hands with it.

This dealer is planning on buying one for himself very soon. He bristled at the idea that 1) this was a scam or 2) this was a trojan horse designed to show the victim's hole cards, access the account, etc.

1<3 b&m players and dealers.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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Then random checking the first two cards mean absolutly nothing. This is what they checked not the whole process.

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Wrong, but thanks for playing.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

People are idiots and consistently prove it with their $

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

Keep in mind that a lot of B&M players are computer and Internet illiterate. It's easier to say online poker is rigged than to admit they can't figure out how to set up a Neteller account and handle EFTs.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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this was a trojan horse designed to show the victim's hole cards, access the account,

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Never thought of that possibility.

Always assumed it was just a plain old scam.

Gives full meaning to : "Hoisted on your own petard"

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

When I run into this argument I always say: "you think party is rigged? Give me a break. They're a billionaire dollar company and you think they'll risk it all just to steal your $100, LOL"

(obviously I'm assuming if they do get caught stealing people's $100 (by rigging it and increasing rake) they'll go bankrupt cause everyone will cash out and leave, also they're traded in london so lots of regulations etc. and lots of people "peeking in" to the business and its practices)

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

many will tend to counter-argue that they don't think they are 'intentionally' doing it...but that you can just tell that cards online aren't shuffled the same and those flops don't 'feel' the same as a hand-dealt flop.

I overheard several conversations to this effect on the PPM cruise last year. It was weird and surreal.

"I think party's flops are usually okay...but I agree that sometimes the server there must be wearing down because you can just tell when the same flop is pretty much coming over and over again.
But have you played on UB?? The flops there are always messed-up and aren't even CLOSE to live flops."


Stuff like that.

I'm fascinated by the psychology.


We just had a guy post in the zoo that he is sick of losing to 60/4/1 type players because Party sets it up to keep the fish around longer.
I found it interesting that a guy could be familiar with the type of stats that a bad player would have..and then still believe that the cards are all rigged against him.

Just as I was impressed at the conversation I observed on one table between a couple of guys who bonus-whore several sites each. The players were 44/11 and 38/2.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

College students are the life blood of new players for these sites.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

The idiots at live play almost ruin the experience for me.

It takes every ounce of my restraint to not get up and grab them by their shirt collar and start b*tch slapping them.


Example?

Playing in a live freeroll NL tourney (so yes everyone was pretty terrible) and some lady at the table had just gotten back from Tunica and was telling everyone about it.

She of course played limit and had never played limit before and sadi she lost money (SHOCKER!)

and like 2-3 guys at the table were like "That's not real poker, it's so stupid, it's not real poker at all"

some older gentlemen at the table mentions "Well I think it has different strategy. I have Super System, ya know Doyle Brunson's book, and it has a chapter on limit" and the guys (shaved head high school drop out tatoo'ed looking types) again insisted how limit "wasn't real poker" and was "stupid" (that was about the extent of their argument)

They prefered NL where they could do expert things like call reraises all in with A4o

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I agree that the idiots are aggrevating.

It's probably why I don't bother playing much live.

I ignore them for the most part of course.

It's nice if the idiotic conversation at the table can be about something other than poker.
Talking about the weather is more interesting than talking about poker with total morons.


FWIW - Obviously there are 2+2'ers who think similar stuff regarding NL vs. limit.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

About 9 months ago.....

A friend of mine was on a hot streak. He was a 42/21/2.0 playing 5/10 and 10/20 6 max games. He imported about 20,000 hands into PokerTracker and was running at about 3BB/100 for that span. He also used gametime+ for stat overlay on the players.

One week, variance hit him in the wallet and he lost everything he won. After that streak, he deposited money and continued to play without using PokerTracker or gametime+ anymore. His reasoning was that those programs are jinxed and make him run bad.

There are many stories from many players about many things. There is only one truth though.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I think there are a huge number of potential players that don't sign up online because they think it's "illegal".

Whenever anyone finds out I play online, I know there is about an 80% chance that they'll ask "isn't that illegal".

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

they'll be cautious about that...and they also want to know how you put your money in there and how it can you possibly know that you're going to get your money back if you win anything.


Taking the plunge and actually depositing is the biggest step.

My neighbor has sometimes played on the play-money poker on yahoo (or somewhere like that) but after I told her how little it cost to play for real money she still didn't even want to make a $25 deposit on Stars to play .01/.02 poker where the most she could win or lose in a day was a dollar.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I have a friend who told me that he had written a program that predicted the shuffling algorythmn of one of the smaller online cardrooms. Now that he could forsee the board cards in advance he took the site for £250,000 before they noticed how lucky he was getting. They had no proof, but still banned him from playing ... but not before he cashed his winnings and used them to buy a house in Leicester and a Toyota.

What do you say to someone like that? It's like when someone tells you they've actually seen a ghost - if you call them a liar to their face then it's you who looks bad.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

Ask him if he can give you and bigfoot a ride home in the rocket ship he bough with his winnings.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

Whem I hear these kinds of stories I just say, "Wow. Really?" and change the subject.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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many will tend to counter-argue that they don't think they are 'intentionally' doing it...but that you can just tell that cards online aren't shuffled the same and those flops don't 'feel' the same as a hand-dealt flop.


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I basically agree, but it is nothing particular for online cardrooms. It goes for anywhere where people lose money gambling. Last time I played in a live tournament, the guy to my right told me that the current dealer always dealt flops that were either "all high" or "all low".

I don't think this talk is really keeping anyone from playing online. People who have lost money start it, and it mostly spreads among people who wouldn't play anywhay (my father, for instance "knows" online poke ris rigged). People who want to play find reasons to do so. I mean, has anyone here not expreienced someone losing couple and pots and starting to fill the chat window with "party is sooo rigged", "only on party...", "riverstared...", etc. I sometimes ask them why they play, if they think it is rigged. The most common answer is something along the lines of "It's definitively rigged, but I can win anyway...".

Ther reason that many of these players play is YOU all (and to a much lesser extent me). It's the stories of players actually earning money (and often good money) gambling. This is a dream for many, but they don't really want to hear that it takes training, reading, discipline, etc., but think that it's all pure talent, and they have IT... When they lose, the site is rigged. When they win, they are great...

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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many will tend to counter-argue that they don't think they are 'intentionally' doing it...but that you can just tell that cards online aren't shuffled the same and those flops don't 'feel' the same as a hand-dealt flop.


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I basically agree, but it is nothing particular for online cardrooms. It goes for anywhere where people lose money gambling. Last time I played in a live tournament, the guy to my right told me that the current dealer always dealt flops that were either "all high" or "all low".

I don't think this talk is really keeping anyone from playing online. People who have lost money start it, and it mostly spreads among people who wouldn't play anywhay (my father, for instance "knows" online poke ris rigged). People who want to play find reasons to do so. I mean, has anyone here not expreienced someone losing couple and pots and starting to fill the chat window with "party is sooo rigged", "only on party...", "riverstared...", etc. I sometimes ask them why they play, if they think it is rigged. The most common answer is something along the lines of "It's definitively rigged, but I can win anyway...".

Ther reason that many of these players play is YOU all (and to a much lesser extent me). It's the stories of players actually earning money (and often good money) gambling. This is a dream for many, but they don't really want to hear that it takes training, reading, discipline, etc., but think that it's all pure talent, and they have IT... When they lose, the site is rigged. When they win, they are great...

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That is so trueee I have so many friends who think online poker is rigged. But one of them, after running 2/4 6m really hot (underrolled), winning a couple g's in a span of 2 months now thinks he's the [censored]. He totally ignores training, reading, and discipline. I'm waiting for his downfall. Of course he doesn't listen to me because I just started poker and lost money.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

"Not very good at life in general" NH

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

The people who run online poker CANNOT BE PROSECUTED. But, if you screw them, they can ruin your credit. There is no better scenario for a criminal enterprise.

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How many more players would be online? Seriously?

Everytime I play at a casino, or at a live card room, anytime online poker is mentioned...everyone talks about how it is not legitimate because of some 2 outer or some such non-sense. They played once, and stopped.

They are naturally all bad players, and obviously not very good at life in general.

Do you think if Party/Stars(please) came out with a campaign, showing more in detail how legitimate their shuffling/dealing was that more donkeys would play online? I'm beginning to think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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many will tend to counter-argue that they don't think they are 'intentionally' doing it...but that you can just tell that cards online aren't shuffled the same and those flops don't 'feel' the same as a hand-dealt flop.


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I basically agree, but it is nothing particular for online cardrooms. It goes for anywhere where people lose money gambling. Last time I played in a live tournament, the guy to my right told me that the current dealer always dealt flops that were either "all high" or "all low".

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I was at the Taj in Atlantic City one day. This poor girl dealing a 10/20 game....

She puts up Qs, Qh, X one flop. Next hand, flop is Qd, Qc, X. Three people at the table started yelling at her to shuffle better....meanwhile, it was two different queens. Retards.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

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The idiots at live play almost ruin the experience for me.

It takes every ounce of my restraint to not get up and grab them by their shirt collar and start b*tch slapping them.


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This never really has bothered me, I just laugh at them. If I'm feeling restrained I manage to laugh under my breath. I have, on more than one occasion, laughed right in thier face. Sometimes without even meaning to.

Of course, I'm the guy that will sit outside a malfunctioning automatic door just to watch people walk into it. I've been known to roll a smoke so I have a reason to loiter there for more than a few minutes.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

I generally explain to people why they're stupid. Or say things like "so, why could they do xyz?". I may take to laughing at people, it sounds more fun. That said, I couldn't help myself laughing at (an attractive) woman who was elaborately looking ill at the tables last time I played. Better to laugh at the idiots instead.

Re: If morons didn\'t think online poker was rigged...
 

Today playing 3/6 6max some guy openlimped the sb, I raised K6s he calls. Flop 996 he bet/folds and says "what a joke. this site is rigged." and leaves like 2 hands later.